Bisendra Melaram: 0:00

Welcome back Castle Dwellers to Keys to the Castle. I'm your host, Bisendra Melaram, and today we're tackling the state of the housing market. Joining me in the studio today are our trusted advisors, Mr. Jason Kleiger and Mr. Marcus. So let's unlock the door

Jason Kleiger: 0:18

to the keys of the

Bisendra Melaram: 0:20

castle. Oh my god. We'll work on that. What do you want me to say, man? I want you to say your bit, whatever you're gonna talk about. You already said it. State of the housing market. State of the housing market. Okay, let's go. Let's get into it. Dude, I'm an attorney. I just

Jason Kleiger: 0:33

read off the paper. Alright, let's go. Alright. This is going to be our That was, that was wonderful. Okay. So, Bisendra. We all hear pundits on TV describe the national housing market. These pundits only use a handful of statistics to describe the entire U. S. housing market. However, we all know that Long Island and the five boroughs, it's its own Niche market. Can you break down the niche market using your own language and your expertise pertinent to buyers and sellers listening?

Bisendra Melaram: 1:09

Okay, well the five boroughs and Nassau and Suffolk are their own independent Neighborhoods, let's just call it. Yes. So they had their own dynamic. And, I'm sure Mr. Marcus can jump in at any time to let you know that each, each county, each of those counties all have their own lending criteria.

Jason Kleiger: 1:34

How is it different though, than Ohio, how is it different than Oklahoma, the market that we're in right now, but as it applies to Long Island, you know, the, the Nassau and Suffolk counties, and the five boroughs, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Bronx, and Staten Island. Cause when I hear about this stuff, I, I, you know, I hear it on, um, you know, CNN or Fox or MSNBC, basically any place that I look, I hear about the statistics or the trends, let's say of the housing market nationally. Now we all know that in 2007, 2008, they focused on places like Las Vegas, where developers were just, over producing housing and there weren't enough buyers. Well, what's going on right now that you see?

Bisendra Melaram: 2:27

Well, it's a different demographic. If you're comparing Ohio and New York, New York is ultimately in has always been the Petri dish for the entire nation. So when you hear the trends, the trends, what they're doing is they're taking numbers from each coast and everywhere in between, and they're just basically taking the national average, right? Because you'll hear it at the end, the national average, the national average. But when you're looking at hyper local markets like Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx, Nassau County, Suffolk County, those numbers are vastly different. So if someone asks me, I'm just going to take it a little sideways. How's the market? What market are you talking about? Right? That's my next question because the market is great depending on where you are looking. So, Ohio. I don't know what the average sales price is in Ohio, but I'll tell you that, as of the end of February, 2024, the median sales price for Nassau County for a one to four family was between 760, 000 and 780, 000. Right. So I, I'm going to make an assumption on Ohio is going to be about half for property with the same square footage. And that's the other problem. Square footage is different in. where you're looking, because I have some friends that live in Ohio and their houses are 2000 plus square feet, where in Queens, the average one family is about 1100 to 1300 square feet. So there's, there's a lot of little, very, a lot of variables in between that dictate price.

Jason Kleiger: 3:55

So we really shouldn't go based on what we hear in the news, but what we should hear based on Our local realtor.

Bisendra Melaram: 4:05

Yeah, all the time.

Jason Marcus: 4:06

Everything like when it comes down to it, you're talking about supply and demand. So let's break this down. Okay? You're sitting there in New York. Okay? You got a ton of baby boomers that own. Okay? So what are they looking to do? Um, Most of them get to retirement age. I want to move down south. So now we're talking about North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, fine. If the inventory in those states are, is low, which it is right now, up here, Bisendra would get to list won't list because they can't find a property down there to go to. So it's like, you got these. other factors that are affecting our market in particular, versus where that would be elsewhere. So I'm not really sure what the baby boomer in Ohio is looking to do. Are they also trying to move south? Are they going southwest? Are they looking out west? Are they looking Vegas? I know just in our demographic, it seems that most people And if you look at the, just the average of where people live, you're talking mostly along coastlines. So it would just kind of stand to reason that somebody that lives in New York is most likely going to, if you're going to look for that retirement property, go down the eastern seaboard. And now we're getting affected by the supply and demand curves in those states. And we're seeing a direct correlation on our inventory being at a historically ridiculous low because of that. That generation isn't the risk generation. They're not rolling the dice on all right I'm gonna go down south and if I don't find something I'm still gonna sell up north and then I'm gonna get left homeless They are very like no it is this to this to this their planners So we can't get them to list their house before they find somewhere else to move and they can't find somewhere else to move so they're not listing their house.

Bisendra Melaram: 6:10

Yeah, that's right on the nail because, and so, and that comes into play with new construction builds. Right. So new construction was at a halt or it was moving at a molasses pace for the last two years for a lot of different factors that they claim, supply chain issues, manufacturing issues, so that prevented and slowed down new construction builds in the areas that Mr. Marcus just said, right? actually played into the low inventory because if there's new no new construction bills, these boomers cannot move to the areas that they want to go to. So they're, they're staying in their house.

Jason Kleiger: 6:42

So we're basically saying like, it's kind of a domino effect where Okay, I'm looking to sell my house, but I want to buy a house. But there's no inventory. So it, you know, I've seen it around where people sell to buy. Okay. And they try to coordinate everything and that's fine, you know, it's doable, but in order to sell, you need that money from your sale in order to carry it forward to your purchase. So, in my, you know, experience, especially of late, you know, this is a little difficult, especially to not only coordinate, but to sell. You know, what comes first, the chicken

Jason Marcus: 7:24

or the egg? Typical Catch 22, Jay. I mean, it's exactly that. It's, this is where part of that's problematic. And there's not, there's not a immediate solution to this problem. Then there's the other problem. Which, this is a weird problem, because this is different. The Baby Boomer, Wealth that has accumulated that is now getting passed down to our buyers where There are people out there just bidding at numbers that like as if we're playing Monopoly Monopoly money It's like what are you doing buying a six hundred thousand dollar valued house for seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It's almost Irresponsible on what's going on there all cuz mommy and daddy like aren't going to be able to spend all the money that they've acquired Before they die and god bless them good planning But that doesn't give you a license to be Ridiculous.

Bisendra Melaram: 8:24

Ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I, I know, case in point, I know that there's a buyer that I sent, I referred to you, that contacted you about a property that she wanted, she was looking to buy. So the property was listed at 749, she, I just found out yesterday that she was looking to make, against my recommendation. Clearly. Always. Against my recommendation. She got caught up in the paparazzi of the open house. There were so many people there, right? So many people, because spring sales season is a real thing, right? Because homeowners wait till the springtime, and buyers look to move between spring and summer, so they're ready to go to, their kids are ready to get situated in school districts to go to school in September, right? Everybody understands that. But the season is beginning earlier and earlier every year. So she wanted to make an 800, 000 offer. And I'm like, but wait, we got to figure out all the math out first. You know, and this is a buyer that I, I know personally, but you know, I know most of her math is already done in her head, but I told her I need it on paper. I need a credible person like Mr. Marcus to tell me, this is how I'm This is the numbers that I need to structure her financially. So after Mr. Marcus set her straight. Very politely, very politely. It's

Jason Marcus: 9:53

all about bringing people back down to earth, because exactly what you're saying, Bisendra, it's like, you got, like, there are people out there, and it's, and I see this a lot. Like, they're not realizing, like, when the smoke clears, they are left paying a price. pretty high nut. And on top of it, if you're going multifamily, now you have this layer of risk where you're depending on the renter that you're going to put into this space to cover it. And I am not in the ruining lives business. I'm in I take a conservative approach with this. And sometimes I have to be the little angel on your shoulder, kind of zoning you back into the reality of what's going on here because you're so caught up because there are that Percentage of people that like to gamble and this becomes like a Gambling situation to certain people and I could see it I watch it like oozing out of them where they are so caught up in the I want to win I want to win. I want to win but at the end of the day inevitably you're left with this and I don't want to ruin your life. So I'm going to sit there and advise you financially that this is not a smart play to go and acquire a house for 25 percent above value that's relying on a rental income for you to make ends meet, even though you can figure out a way to finagle to get to the point where we can get this thing financed. It's called suitability over eligibility. And I am constantly. Going to be on the side of

Bisendra Melaram: 11:24

suitability and going back to how we got here. Her grandmother was gonna front her the money Grandma yeah, I'm not gonna I'm like grandma down No, so between her savings grandma savings and somebody else or wherever else she was gonna get The additional funds from, I was like, you really think this is the best play? So she wasn't hearing what I was saying. So I was like, I immediately defer to Mr. Marcus. I'm like, call Jay. Whatever he says is i'll Right. Other than that, I'm not gonna listen to you right now. I'm like the annoying dad that

Jason Marcus: 11:57

you know is right. And it's like, you're right.

Bisendra Melaram: 12:00

No, but you see the, the thing is, I don't really get involved in people's numbers. You tell me. Let a banker tell me this is how much you can spend and I will show you how to structure it. Right? That's not my job. I'm the negotiator. I'm the locator. I'm, you know, I'm not the nice guy that's going to tell you, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk to whoever and we get the number up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I do the reverse. So I know he's on the conservative end and that's where I like to be because I work in worst case scenario. So if Mr. Marcus says, yeah, not a dime over 700, then it's not, it's, it's. 700,

Jason Kleiger: 12:36

you know, and that brings me to my next point, which is inflation. Okay. Now we're talking about being a numbers person and looking at the numbers and looking at the numbers on paper. Now, a few weeks ago, inflation actually ticked up for the month of February. Correct. Okay. And that's despite the fed keeping rates steady. Okay. And, and it's still one up now. Um, we always hear when inflation goes up that mortgage rates follow lockstep, but that's not always the case. Mr. Marcus, what in your professional opinion do you see happening in the lending market? And what other factors, because, you know, to be honest, I have no idea. What other factors go into, let's say, mortgage rates when it comes to lending on houses?

Jason Marcus: 13:29

So I used to play this game called SimCity and When I would sit there and I would build out my city one of the things that you can control is the interest rates So one of the things that if you did crazy and you basically move the needle Aggressively crazy to one side like all of a sudden you were gonna bring Interest rates down to nothing. What'll happen is, is your community builds very rapidly, but then you're not generating the income so your crime's gonna go up, you're not able to pay the police, you're not able to pay the fire department, and it throws things completely out of whack. Your initial response to that is to move the needle completely to the other end of the spectrum. I'm giving you guys this example because this is what happened in COVID. The Fed at that point in time was aggressively raising interest rates, but at a moderate pace. Not like insane. COVID hits the markets if you guys remember what going bananas like these crazy swings that we never saw before all based on fear. So the Fed overnight decided I'm going to drop our Fed funds rate to zero. So what that did was it created all this chaos and craziness that they now can't counterbalance by doing what I just said, and that's bringing the needle aggressively the other way, which is what they tried to do. They then did that. So now we're at this place where these interest rates are insane. And this was all to kind of slow down the momentum of the economy. And now the feds in a position where they're going to need to very slowly and carefully Sorry, CAF er, CAF, care, carefully, carefully, I'm just glad it wasn't me this time. Sometimes we all get it. Yeah, we all get it. So, they have to be careful with this, and they have to slowly move it back. But, these reports, have them a little bit twisted. Because, in a perfect world, they were hoping, okay, we jack these rates up, Inflation rates like these reports come in the CPI report or any of these reports wind up coming in and are showing gradual deceleration of inflation because for the longest time, guys, we were in a ridiculously deflated market, and I always try to point that out to people where, like the Fed, the Fed wants to keep that if you want Inflation rate at around 2%. I mean, we were sitting there at like under 1 percent for like a decade. It was like crazy how long, like nothing was inflated except the housing market, obviously. And that never stopped where like, it just continued to rise, rise, rise. But to get back to the point at hand, they now are looking at these reports and they're kind of in a catch 22. Because it's like they know that they can't raise rates They have really made that stand where they're not planning on raising rates but they also have to be smart and I kind of give them a little bit of an applaud of Not starting to bring down those interest rates yet because a couple of hot Inflation reports came out and it's like alright guys like we're still in a position where these are coming out and February especially because With January, like, those reports are reflecting, like, especially on the consumer part, we're talking about what went on with Christmas sales, and it's like, it wasn't true. The February report was really true. And, like, the Fed did something intelligent where they didn't kill us by saying, Oh my God, we're not doing these cuts. They're like, no, we're going to still continue with these cuts, but instead of doing a March cut, we'll start to do this in June. So now fast forward, what actually is controlling long term interest rates and that's the buying and selling of something called mortgage backed securities. So people sit there and think that the fed controls long term interest rates and they don't, they correlate. And usually, like, they follow each other, but when it comes down to it, it's Wall Street. Wall Street buying mortgage backed securities is what's making long term interest rates go up and down. So right now, because of the fact that rates jack so quickly, nobody has, like, has been sitting in a long position on a 7 percent interest rate. Because interest rates were so low, any treasuries that were purchased were all like in between where at it's low and now. So anytime you're seeing these interest rates spike a little bit or come down a little bit, it's all short term money. What we're all rooting for is Wall Street goes long and for them to go long, that's going to be very profitable for them on holding these higher interest rate securities. And not selling off to try to make short term money. No, no, that's a lot of people, so I'm sorry.

Bisendra Melaram: 18:41

No, that was a really good way, you explained it really

Jason Kleiger: 18:42

well. That was brilliant, and I don't know what to say. But, one thing I want to ask is, how does John Q Homeowner view the reports of inflation ticking up a little bit, and the Fed not raising it? How does John Q Home Searcher

Jason Marcus: 19:02

feel about that? They either care or they don't. So at the end of the day, it's again, the person who, cause I'm seeing this, you're not getting the guy that has three and a half percent and needs to finance his closing costs out there to buy right now, you're getting the guy where it's like, mom and dad are giving me 200, 000. Like I make an okay income with my significant other and on a 700, 000 house, I can drop. 200 000 it's going to be a gross payment for me for a little while with the hopes that it's inevitably going to come down And i'll refinance that that is obviously A generalization of the clients, but that is more clients than not.

Bisendra Melaram: 19:47

I agree I agree because everyone I speak to everyone that's looking to buy They're when I ask them. Okay. Well, how much cash are you working with? my parents my relative is gonna Gift me x dollar So I know how much money they're working with. So it's a lot of gift funds.

Jason Kleiger: 20:05

That's I mean, God bless the parents,

Bisendra Melaram: 20:08

right? Yeah, but it's becoming more and more common since Oh, let's just call it. I will call it the height of covid because People didn't want their kids living in their basement.

Jason Marcus: 20:20

Yeah And now you got the financial side. Also the younger generation of financial planners out there are Realizing More and more that you got to do something with this excess amount of money Because it's like they said everybody into like you need five million dollars to retire and they got everybody on that and guess what? Some of these people got to five million dollars. They're sitting there There's like my mom our parents these guys like They don't splurge on things they're living this meager life as if they're gonna run out of money I had to have a sit down with my mom and be like ma you can literally go on a world cruise for the rest Of your life paid by the interest accruing on these accounts. It's like this legacy idea on Like passing it along and not living your life. There are plenty of these boomers that are just not living their life. So like these financial planners got them into this program where it's like, Hey, listen, if we do this right, and you have 5 million earning 5%, you're going to wind up making 250, 000 in interest. You're My mom can't spend 20 grand a month even if she tried so this thing's just accumulating My mom doesn't footnote. My mom does not have five million dollars It keeps accruing accruing accruing accruing and it's like these planners are just like you got to do something like these guys It's like do you want the government to keep your money? Because if they didn't put this into life insurance policies like You're, you're wide open, and I mean, don't even get me started with the five year lookbacks and all these things. Estate tax. Yeah, the government's trying to take your inheritance. So, these accountants and these financial planners are like, you need to do something with this money, and this is something to do with that money. Give it to your kids, set them up with a house.

Jason Kleiger: 22:11

Are you listening, Dad?

Jason Marcus: 22:14

Yeah, for all those rich baby boomers that are not giving your kids money, which would help all of us in regards to facilitating home ownership, shame on you. I am talking to you. I see you there.

Jason Kleiger: 22:28

Well, okay. So, you know, that brings me to another point, really, where, um, you know, we have this kind of back and forth, you know, the needle swings one way and then it swings the other way. We have a little bit of a spike and then we have a little bit of a thing. of a valley, let's say, in, in mortgage rates. Now, Bisendra, is there a direct correlation do you see where more people will come out and look for houses or more people will list their houses for sale when they see a certain spike or when they hear something on the news or if the Fed drops their interest rate? Is there some kind of correlation? even, even if it's a remote, uh, discrete kind of correlation.

Bisendra Melaram: 23:08

It's very discreet, the correlation. If I had to, if I had to say there was a correlation, it's very discreet. I'll tell you why. Baby boomers are used to paying. They remember their first mortgage was in the teens as far as the interest rate goes. So them hearing 7%, right? I don't remember. I don't know. I don't remember what the rate was this morning, but let's just call it 7 percent for argument's sake. That's nothing. That's nothing. They remember paying 15, 16%. So them getting 7, that's good. That's good. So if they're lending you the money to purchase, why are you complaining? And the problem is people still continue to need housing. That's number one. Families grow. Families sizes decline. Kids move out. Parents become empty nesters. They're just sitting in this house. That's, you know, the equity is through the roof to like, Hey, Let's go down to Florida. Right? So, they find a nice condo, whatever, they got a new construction build, whatever the case is. They're gonna sell, and a new family's gonna move in. Right, so the turnover rate is still there. You know, our population on this planet is still growing. So, there will always be a need. So, yeah, there was a little scare there, but the thing I tell people, People is it's either you want to live in the apartment and pay your landlord or you want to pay yourself. Yeah. Right. Cause inflation affects people differently, Inflation affects even just the three of us sitting here, it impacts us differently. So, you know, like the baby boomers, like his mom, for instance, she's not worried about inflation. Right. Because she's sitting on 5 million, you know, accruing 5 percent interest every month. That she's, you know, 20, 000 that she's never gonna spend. My father was the same way.

Jason Kleiger: 24:54

No, no, no,

Bisendra Melaram: 24:55

but we're just, you know, it's just for argument's sake. It's not, you know, it's a fictitious number, but she's probably got 20 million, you know.

Jason Marcus: 25:02

If, if she had $20 million, like this podcast would be on a yacht, and Jay would be wearing a bikini. Oh no. Everyone wants to see that. Jason Kleiger: Right. But it,

Bisendra Melaram: 25:13

it affects every it, that it was just a momentary blip on the radar that, you know, housing was coming. It wasn't, it didn't even come to a halt because people were still looking, the people who could qualify to get mortgages were still out there. Mm-Hmm.. And they still are. Yeah. You know, like Jay said, they're gonna buy at whatever rate. And then when the rates come down, they're going to refi.

Speaker1: 25:34

Yeah.

Jason Marcus: 25:35

But on the flip side is there is, uh, to kind of parlay off Bisendra's point, there is a pent up demand behind this. Like there are those people who are, they're not a person that if the interest rates seven, and let's just say, I'm not buying with the interest rates higher than five. They're not going to not ever buy so that there's a wave behind this and like that's kind of what all of us are waiting for. It's like where we understand that when the Fed starts cutting their rates and Wall Street starts buying back into these mortgage backed securities, like that there's going to be a tidal wave where we're back to flourishing on that market and go on a nice run. I mean our last run. I mean, shoot, it was, it was supposed to be around 2012 to 2020. It should have been an eight year run, but COVID messed that up and extended that run for another two and a half years. And now we're kind of paying the piper for it. Like COVID years shouldn't have been that good. These years shouldn't be that bad. What the Fed, if they play this right, they'll get back to a normal market and we'll start to get into slow but steady growth.

Jason Kleiger: 27:03

That's brilliant because that just helped me understand because, you know, I'm on, you guys have to understand I'm on one side of this. No, but you should, you should see a direct impact. I, I, yeah. And, you know, Since, you know, like, let's say, December, uh, you know, November December was very quiet.

Speaker1: 27:19

Yeah.

Jason Kleiger: 27:19

Um, and Since you know late January February and then early March really picked up. It really picked up Yeah, one week

Jason Marcus: 27:30

of 70 degrees.

Jason Kleiger: 27:32

Yeah First day breaks. That's it. Think about 20 degrees out and snowing No, but I tell

Bisendra Melaram: 27:37

sellers that are thinking about oh, I'm gonna wait till spring. I tell them look your house is already clean Mm hmm. You've decorated it looks the best. It's gonna look all year And you will only get serious buyers. So you will fetch the same price It's very close to that price that you will get in the springtime. I'm amazed. Think about it. Just think about it. Did you see

Jason Kleiger: 27:56

me with my jaw wide open there? Yeah.

Bisendra Melaram: 27:58

I love those deals because they're so easy. Because there's no looky loos. Yeah. There's only serious buyers out, and they're planning ahead, and I like to work with planners. Wow. I like with people that have foresight and planning capabilities. Yeah. They're like, oh. So if I buy in, I close in January, new year, close in January, taxes, everything else is fresh from day one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So January, they can move in in February or whatever the case is, gives the seller time to move. Then they can make their renovations and everything else and move in early spring.

Jason Kleiger: 28:31

Wow. You know, I never thought of that. I always thought of, okay, you know, if it's because if you remember in, I think it was October, maybe November, there was, you know, Um, I've been living in a house for five

Speaker1: 28:43

weekends

Jason Kleiger: 28:43

of just rain and it consecutively and I was always like, Oh, okay. Maybe that's why it's quiet. Um, but you know, the way that you describe it as, you know, hey, people who want to see that house and see that it's an open house, uh, we'll go right. Like, what's the postal service saying? Neither rain nor wind nor hail, uh, they will go. Yeah. And, you know, I've never thought of that. Thank you for that.

Bisendra Melaram: 29:10

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Kleiger: 29:10

Because the real

Bisendra Melaram: 29:11

buyers are still out there.

Jason Kleiger: 29:13

Yeah. No, no, no. That's, that's And speaking of real buyers Mr. Marcus. Um We always hear about cash buyers offering less, um, and getting the house over higher offers where people plan on putting even 20 percent down and financing 80%. How would, I'm, I'm looking for a house, right? I'm not really, but I'm looking for a house. And, you know, look, I, I'm a millennial. Um, you know, I have, uh, my obligations. I, I have my bills and I just don't have accumulated cash. How do I make myself? More competitive to compete with these

Jason Marcus: 29:53

cash buyers What I generally will do and not to try to plug the bank that I work for but I'm gonna go do it do it Do it we have something called secure buy so what we wind up doing is I will take in the loan Instead of just issuing a pre approval I would literally have the client go through the entire process to get committed Issue the commitment so that way they can go out and shop with a commitment letter so at least on that commitment letter, they're going to see in black and white like all of the obligations with the exception of the homeowner's insurance, obviously wouldn't have that in place or the appraisal, you're not going to deal with value yet, because you haven't purchased anything. But at least you have that ironclad, hey, listen, an underwriter, not only the loan officer has documented and cleared all conditions on the assets. So it's like, and they've done the numbers with the incomes. And it all works to the point where the bank has committed based on these numbers. And obviously based on the house that you're looking at, sits with inside this criteria, it gives them that type of leg that they're going to need to compete with the all cash offer. Cause at the end of the day, we all know sellers want the most that they can. If they're going to make a concession for an all cash buyer, based on the fear that a buyer isn't going to be able to get a mortgage. That's one thing, but the more secure they are in this process, the better. And most of my referral partners, to be honest with you, they'll get me on the phone with that listing agent. And most agents that are top notch agents, they know the right questions to ask me. And by the time, and I tell my agents even if I didn't have that secure buy in place. By the time I get off the phone with that listing agent, they should feel the confidence that I know what I've been doing for two and a half decades, that I can pretty much guarantee with out obviously external circumstances coming in, be it a death of somebody, loss of job or something to that effect that based on where we are right this second with this person still working with the money that they have access to, they are undoubtedly going to get a, They're going to be able to get an accepted offer on this house, and they're going to be able to fulfill that obligation to get that mortgage. So, a lot of times, I'm having those conversations with the listing agents, and it's funny, you'll find loan officers to get annoyed that listing agents call them. And to me, like, they're weeding out those agents for me. Like, if I got a listing agent that's contacting me, I'm like, I want to hang out with this agent. You're doing your due diligence. You were scratching me where I itch. Like this is my wheelhouse. I want you to talk to me. Cause I want to create that rapport. I want to know like what you're looking for in a loan officer and I ain't going to pursue you. So by all means, call me and let's go over that pre approval. And if you need that secure buy in place. Give me a couple days and I'll have that in place for you.

Bisendra Melaram: 33:01

It's a good tool Yeah, as a listing agent, I'll tell you if a buyer right it's an education curve, right? It's definitely an education curve because the only thing that that buyer is missing is now the identification of a property that they want To buy and the property to appraise so it's a much it's it's not as fast as cash or as fast as cash can be Right, because that investor is paying cash, still is going to do their own due diligence. They may or may not want an appraisal. They may or may not want it. Traditionally, they don't want an inspection, but whatever. You know, and then they want to run their numbers. So within that 14 day span that the average investor takes, they say, Okay, we can close in 14 days, right? So what? Okay, Mr. Mark is going to close in 30. Right. What's the difference? You wait, you got an extra 15 days to pack your boxes, right? And that's why that product is good. Okay. That's a good tool. It's a good tool. And I, you know, if you, if you can get a secure buy because not all everyone qualifies for that, it's the way to go. If you can do it because it makes you absolutely more competitive

Jason Marcus: 34:00

and most sellers aren't ready to leave in 14 days anyway. So it's like, and obviously as we know, the attorney has. a decision to make. So generally speaking, after a contract of sale, a title report needs to be ordered. So most attorneys are going to wait for a mortgage commitment before they place that order, unless the realtor, me as the lender, push up on Jay and say, Jay, listen, like, we need to get this done in ridiculous amount of time. Like, please order the title ahead of time. But that incurs costs for both the client and the lender. the attorney that could be like kind of left if this thing doesn't wind up closing, they could be left on the hook for some sort of obligation. So with that being said, when you're doing the secure buy, that gives me a little bit more leverage also to go to Jay and be like, Jay, listen, I got a commitment on these people. You're safe to go unless as long as nothing external in circumstances pops, like we're good, place the order, let's expedite this. And again, most of the time. This is a surreal event for sellers. And like the more you understand that, like the better you'll understand the psyche of how this all kind of works, where, and Bisendra can attest to this. It's almost like they're in this process. Like it's almost dreamlike. We get to the point where we clear this file to close as if they're shocked about it, like the fact that they have to now pack and leave, like it's like an amazement, like as if this was not. What was he intended to happen? It's not it's

Bisendra Melaram: 35:38

not the course

Jason Marcus: 35:38

we set. Yeah, and all of a sudden it's just like oh no We need another 30 days. So you just made me kill myself for two and a half weeks I got this done. And now you're gonna make me sit for 30 days. Yeah,

Bisendra Melaram: 35:47

that's the best one.

Jason Marcus: 35:49

I'm gonna come

Jason Kleiger: 35:50

well That's where the attorney steps in and says hey, we got a post closing possession for seven days

Bisendra Melaram: 35:56

No, and it's the same seller that'll tell me at the listing appointment. Yeah, I need to be In Myrtle Beach by this day. Okay. So now we do everything. Everyone's jumping through hoops. Oh, but wait. There's more. Mm hmm. So,

Jason Kleiger: 36:10

yeah. It's like, oh, I need an on or about of, of 20 days and nothing more. And then all of a sudden, you know, who's the one delaying everything? It's

Jason Marcus: 36:17

always them. Yeah, and then all of a sudden Myrtle Beach is now in California. It's like, what happened to Myrtle Beach? Where'd it go? Quit murder. Who moved Myrtle

Bisendra Melaram: 36:24

Beach? They just picked it up. They picked it up

Jason Marcus: 36:25

and

Bisendra Melaram: 36:26

moved

Jason Marcus: 36:26

it. They just grabbed it and moved it. Nobody even said nothing.

Bisendra Melaram: 36:31

Well, I like that product, though. Yeah, that is. It's helpful.

Jason Kleiger: 36:35

You know, um, I'll say that, uh, it is, it puts people on, on pace with cash buyers. And also, you make an offer that's, you know, 10, 000 more than a cash buyer. And granted, in the scheme of things, now 100, 000 house, that's a lot of money. But if it's a million dollar house, 10, 000 more isn't that much more money. But if you have and you can give the assurance to not only the listing agent, but the listing agent through to the seller Then you know, it's math though. It's easy math. Yeah, and you know, you're getting more money Wherever if you move to to myrtle beach now, you can put that towards a boat Whereas if you took the all cash offer where you know, they pretty much would be vetted similarly You You know, now you're not getting that money towards a boat.

Bisendra Melaram: 37:23

No, but like I said before, it's an education curve. So, you're, the seller is not getting a trunk load of cash at the closing. You're still getting a wire. Right? Bank check. Or a bank check. So, A buyer coming in saying, I'll offer X cash and can close 20 days, you know, we'll give them a benefit of, you know, or a conditionally committed buyer would secure by like Mr. Marcus was depicting and they're offering more. You're getting the same money coming across the table.

Jason Kleiger: 37:54

Yeah. And, and that's something where, um, some people get a little confused. I come across it with some of my clients where. They think like cash is like a suitcase full. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I say no, that's not how that's not how it works They're really, you know, people look at and it's an old school way of thinking but people look at an all cash offer as you know Just that but what it really does is it just does away with the mortgage contingency and that's really it That's um, you know, and when what are you gonna do make a play for their down payment? Which is your only remedy if a cash buyer? Uh, you know, walks away from the deal, uh, without any good cause. And, and, and the problem with that is no one's walking, if it's a 600, 000 house, no one's walking away from 60, 000. So it's going to take you forever to go and sue that person. They're going to put a Lis Pendens, what a Lis Pendens is, it's basically Cloud's title. And there's a, when they claim that there's a dispute over the ownership of this property. And it's going to take you forever, it's going to take you legal fees and everything. And, and, you know, so, so that's just a, a, a. You know, it's not like you have a play at their down payment. Yes, you can make a play But at the end of the day, you're still going to get the same issues. You're going to get that lis pendens You're not going to be able to find a buyer right away If you're going to try to keep that person's down payment and and that's really the allure of the quote unquote Uh cash buyer

Jason Marcus: 39:20

And we're right now in a situation where our supply and demand curve is So leaned towards the seller where you're not really, unless you're on the tightest of tight timelines, you're, you're going to with, you're going to get a better deal with somebody with a mortgage. Like, why are you going to take less in a market where if this guy falls through, you can sell it fairly quickly to somebody else, but let's put that aside for a second. Most. intelligent people that would be cash buyers, don't leave six or 700, 000 in their checking account earn a point 2 percent with Chase, you know, so like this money is earned. So and Bisendra can attest to this, like if he calls for on a cash offer, proof of funds, most of the time he is getting handed an investment account or something where this is tied up where something has to go. And trust me when I tell you this, if you have ever seen a savvy buyer that is dealing A brokerage account. These people are obsessed with trying to make every last nickel the second they can before they are forced to sell it to stop earning money. So all of a sudden, I've been down this road. I've watched the even on the mortgage side. It's like, Hey, it's Monday. I need you to sell this off so that way we can close by next Monday. No problem. Ended a day Monday market was running J. I'll sell it tomorrow next day market still running J. I'll sell it tomorrow It's like you don't sell this today. I can't document this in time to get you closed by Monday It's like yeah, but I'm making money. It's like Okay, and like then you got that battle. So you like and again like this isn't Especially in New York where you have to close on that second of that day. Like there's plenty of states with the honor before. Here it's always on or about. So that everybody can sit there and play with these times. So, me and Bisendra were making light of it, but it happens a lot. Where it's like, people are like, I gotta close on April 1st or the world's gonna collapse. And then lava's gonna come in and ensue the whole long. Long Island's gonna sink into the ocean. It's like, oh no, now I can't, now I gotta, now it has to be May 3rd. It's like, you just made us kill ourselves to get April 1st.

Bisendra Melaram: 41:40

Well, my kid's got a lacrosse game on Wednesday.

Jason Kleiger: 41:42

No, the best is, I'm going to Italy for a month. What yeah, it has to close, you know, I'll have like for example, I'll have an honor about of April 1st, right? Okay, and so basically you have until May 1st until anyone can kind of push and prod and everything and You know, they say oh well, you know starting mid april, you know, so halfway through that that adjournment period I'm going to Italy

Bisendra Melaram: 42:05

For a month. Yeah, because that's just like a random thing that people just get up one morning and say they're gonna do. I'm

Jason Marcus: 42:10

like, don't you care? Mom with her five

Bisendra Melaram: 42:12

million

Jason Marcus: 42:12

bucks, see what happens mom? Now you're going to, now you're supposed to buy something and you're going to Italy. Like, you ever gonna listen to me? Yeah, yeah,

Jason Kleiger: 42:20

you know and it and it's worse for buyers, obviously. Sellers can say, oh, what are you gonna do? You know, you're gonna put a, you know, sue for a specific performance or whatever. And specific performance is basically just saying, hey, I'm in contract for this house. Sell me this house for the price that we agreed on. So it really is kind of boring. Um, but for buyers and they decide, I mean, previously we've spoken about buyers who, you know, go out and buy Mercedes and expensive things and. You know, now we're talking about buyers who just disappear for a month.

Speaker1: 42:51

Oh yeah.

Jason Kleiger: 42:52

And then, you know, part of what I say is we're going to probably close right around here. Do not plan anything because what will happen is you'll blow dates in the contract. One of them would be, uh, you know, the honor of that date. And, and if you don't have your, your commitment. Forget about it, you'll, you'll blow that date. Or, uh, if you don't give everything to your, your lender or your, your, you know, to Mr. Marcus here. Okay. You're definitely going to, you know, I don't wanna say screw up, but I just did. Yeah, that's fine. You're definitely gonna screw up your, your mortgage commitment date, your mortgage contingency date. And what's gonna happen is you're gonna waive it and you're gonna become an all cash buyer. You don't get your mortgage too bad. You gotta show up with the money.

Bisendra Melaram: 43:34

Yeah, too bad is right. Yeah, it's really what it is. It's too bad. There's a, there's a, there's a consonant in there somewhere, but I don't want to say that.

Jason Kleiger: 43:44

Carefully. Carefully. So, um, those are, uh, thank you gentlemen. Um, I had, uh, you know, a few more questions, but because they're so comprehensive. You've pretty much answered it. Other than the one question I have for Bisendra.

Speaker1: 44:02

Okay.

Jason Kleiger: 44:03

I'm ready. Now, please explain this to me, because I, you know, I saw this in the news, um News? Yeah, I always see it in the news. Why are you watching the news?

Bisendra Melaram: 44:12

Ah, I don't know why. Have you learned nothing?

Jason Kleiger: 44:15

Yes, no, is that the correct answer? Um NAR, okay, we hear about this 6 percent now. Yes. I know we're all But I'm the attorney so I don't care so now You know and and this goes to sellers because the news is telling us that sellers will now not have as high as Close not who said that I will who slow Joe my Listen listen

Bisendra Melaram: 44:47

listen, I will always I respect the position the person currently holding the position right now. I don't hold it against him personally Because those are things that happen when you reach a certain stage in life

Jason Kleiger: 45:04

Like being 80.

Bisendra Melaram: 45:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right so, uh, you know, I love my country and The position is the position right but if you're unable to perform Okay, it's like live it out, but don't

Jason Marcus: 45:18

do it again at the end of the day. You have a minimum of the day coming You have a minimum to become president at 35 years old. There is no reason that they should not throw a maximum. I agree. And it like at the end of the day, again, no, I don't lean either way. Anybody that knows me knows I'm a straight independent, but when it comes down to it, I need to cap where the age of the person running The country is like and I'm sorry. I know that like can lead into quote unquote age discrimination. It's not and it's like it's just it's it's the same way the other way. You guys at some point in time, Congress decided that somebody younger than 35 years old. Couldn't. They didn't have the capacity. Have the capacity to run it. So you have to look at it the inverse way. And it's like if you need to cap that at 75 years old, I will vote for that to get passed. If like it came down and I had a say in something like that. And it's just, it's just the reality of the situation.

Jason Kleiger: 46:24

Well, interestingly enough, um, I only recently became eligible to run for president. And I do not have the capacity.

Bisendra Melaram: 46:32

Okay, but you at least you

Jason Kleiger: 46:34

I

Bisendra Melaram: 46:34

admit that I won't run for president. Okay, so let's talk about this NAR thing. Let's talk about the statement Yeah, we're going to NAR Backwards Let's talk about the statement. Okay, commissions have always been negotiable Always indefinitely when I did the research is in excess of a hundred years So I don't know what this what he's talking about First of all, cuz he made two Errors in his statement that they will now become negotiable, right? And they've always been and any realtor even day one agent will tell you it's always negotiable, you know and then secondly He said that it will save buyers money when it's actually doing the opposite Right, because if if you actually look at the transaction Very superficially it's always the buyer bringing all the money to the table all that money coming to the table Right. So the proceeds from the seller the way was structured or it's always been structured is a Portion of the proceeds from the seller gets distributed to the agents to compensate them their commissions. Okay. So now the way it's Structured is the buyer may potentially have to bring extra money

Jason Marcus: 47:52

more money for the buyer To the closing to pay the real estate agent. That's representing them.

Bisendra Melaram: 47:58

Yeah,

Jason Marcus: 47:59

so how is that fair? I think they just missed because it's like you're trying to solve one problem Where it's like I feel like they just missed the boat by doing it the other way. So hear me out on this All right, so I do believe You That a buyer should be represented by a real estate agent. So buyer broker should always exist Always exist this whole concept of both realtors working on behalf of the seller always sounded crazy to me Made absolutely no sense. But with that being said There is no reason why, or anything that I can see in law, or any other reason on earth that I can understand justifiably why all of the commission can't come from the seller's side of it for both of those agents. Like, I don't understand why they can't just split the commission, like, as if, oh no, whoever's getting the commission, you have to work for that particular, no. Once again, this is negotiable. If a seller wants to sit there and say, Hey, listen, I am putting out 4 percent on this listing, 2 percent on the, for the buyer side, 2 percent for the listing side. Again, this can still be negotiated, but what buyer is going to turn to their agent and say, you know what, Bisendra, I know I'm not paying you, but instead of you receiving 2%, I want you to receive one and a half. What. Person is going to do that.

Bisendra Melaram: 49:28

No, I none, you know Why because the person they chose to represent them should be worth what they're gonna pay them, right? So if they don't feel that they're getting the best representation go find another representation because this process is nothing new for me But but there's a big but if your agent is worth that, let's just use mr. Marcus's number two percent I like that number for a buyer's agent. Don't, don't ask. That's just my opinion, right? Yeah, it's even better, right? If the agent is able to get you the property that you want in the location that you want for the price that you're willing to pay and that you're comfortable with, are they not worth 2%? They just did exactly what you asked for them, asked of them, right? So I agree with Mr. Marcus. Everything should come from one side. and as it works and a seller that does not want to pay a buyer side because I've seen it all over the MLS since this actually right before the actual ruling came out. It's saying zero across the board, which is fine. Mr Mr. Seller, I'm pleading to anybody that's in the air shot of this sound right now. Do you want a buyer's agent coming in and saying? Yeah, this is the house or hey, check out the skylights. Look at the detail in the molding, you know, all these great things pointing out the great aspects, helping you get the price that you're looking for. Or somebody just opens the door.

Jason Kleiger: 50:55

Yeah,

Bisendra Melaram: 50:55

that's the difference. That's literally what's going to happen.

Jason Kleiger: 50:57

Well, no, nevermind. I was going to talk about the PCDA, but that's coming from the seller side. But can I,

Jason Marcus: 51:02

can I just ask the United States one question? You guys. Don't have enough things To try to fix that you need to try to fix things that aren't broken. There's a reason why The Major League Baseball didn't wake up one day and go, You know what? Let's have everybody run to third first. Because it wasn't broken. You're trying to fix something that's not broken. Nobody's complaining about it. Also, you guys can go get elected and say you did something. You didn't do nothing here. You're not doing anything anywhere else. You guys need to start pulling your weight in Congress and making laws that actually make sense. Because we're all damn sick and tired of you picking on people that are trying to make money in a free market system and trying to turn this into a communist nation. Go deal with the problems we have. Stop messing with things that aren't broken. Yeah, I'm getting mad about it because all we're hearing about is this. He's right though, he's right. Infuriating. You did it to my industry, now you're trying to do it to this industry. It's enough. You got problems to fix, go fix them.

Bisendra Melaram: 52:13

No, but people don't understand. He's right because real estate runs the entire secondary market for everything, right? Let's, we'll take the three of us. You want to buy a house? You call me. I tell you go get pre approved. You call Mr. Marcus up, you get pre approved, and you go buy something. Then what happens? You work, you start to do renovations, then how do those products get to your local store that you go to purchase all your materials from, right? And the trades, and the trades. And all the trades, right? So, you hire trades, you hire, you know, your plumber, your electrician, those are the trades. and then you go buy supplies at, you know, Your local store. If there isn't one, then you go to big box, you know, then how do those things get to the store? There's employees there, you know, it's this whole trickle down effect that people don't realize that's what's running the economy And if you look at it very Not even close It's easy to figure out because that money gets funneled right back into the economy and then what happens? Inflation will start to come down because people are actually spending the money that they earn Right. And then more jobs, more, you know, it's just like very cyclic, but you know, what they're trying to do is basically stunt, in my opinion, the real estate market, because it's creating, it's creating too much wealth. And it's always has been, but you know, the last few years I've seen spikes, you know, cause I, I independently look at the market. The housing market across the board like you were talking about very early the housing market You know locally in different areas different sectors, but what's happened? I actually saw spikes on Long Island in very in pockets of appreciation of 22 percent annually Wow You know, and traditionally real estate brings, you know, on average, 6%, you know, appreciation annually, right? So once you start outpacing that you're creating real wealth, you know So you're looking at people that you know what five years ago six years ago that bought their house for let's just say 500 They can bring a million dollars now.

Jason Kleiger: 54:10

That's that's something right, right? And so

Bisendra Melaram: 54:13

what's happening? The government's not getting their cut I mean, that's just my, my opinion. Cause somebody's gotta get, somebody's gotta win. Right? And they don't want the little guy to win. But I want the little guy to win.

Jason Kleiger: 54:23

Well, and you know, it's also kind of slanted against certain people. Um, you know, when we talk about gains tax, um, you know, it really just hits at, uh, and gains tax is an income tax. It's not, it doesn't really have much to do with real estate, but it does come into play with real estate. Uh, when you've, for example, a lot of people lived in their house for over 20 years and they bought their house for a hundred thousand dollars and now they sell their house for a million dollars. Now, if you're married, you get a 500, 000 exemption. And then all of the proceeds after that is taxed at the capital gains rate. Um, and you know, you're also, you're also taxing people at the same capital gains rate who are making millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars on Wall Street. So, you know, here you have, uh, you know, John and Jane Q homeowner and, you know, they, they, they, Bought into the suburb lifestyle. They raised their kids. Their kids are out, now they're empty nesters and they wanna sell. Now they're gonna have to pay not only the New York State Transfer tax, and if you're in the city of the New York State, uh, the New York City, city RPTT Transfer Tax, they're also gonna have to pay income tax at the capital gains rate for the pound, the, the period of time that they own the house. It's crazy. And, and it's just, it, it's insane. It's like, you know, part of it is almost like kicking the, the ladder down. Um, you know, you don't want certain people to accumulate a certain amount of wealth at a certain amount of time in their life, at a certain time in their life. But, and, you know, you have them taxed at the same rate as people who make, uh, you know, millions of dollars buying and selling, day trading, whatever. Day trading? Yeah. Those guys are making a killing. And I know Mr. Marcus wants to say something.

Jason Marcus: 56:05

Just,

Jason Kleiger: 56:06

I'm, I'm still mad about that.. Jason Marcus: I'm, I'm trying to, I'm No, you're get

Bisendra Melaram: 56:13

there. You're good there. Don't take you, you looked, you looked ramped up a bit. We, we

Jason Marcus: 56:16

let the, we let the, the demon out. we did. You like all of a sudden it's just like, ah,

Bisendra Melaram: 56:21

gosh. Just No, but it's a touchy subject. I'm not gonna lie. It's a touchy, it's infuriating' Jason Marcus: cause it. You just sit there and you watch just these handshakes and like how they make this these tax codes they're so complicated and it's it's constantly targeted to just Annihilate the middle class. It's it's Infuriating and it's like these are my these are my friends. These are my colleagues. These are my brothers These are my sisters like these are my people. It's like I like as much as like The hierarchy and the super uber wealthy doesn't care about me. I don't care about you guys I care about these guys and I'm tired of like the way that this system works to just reward those people because of this concept with this Trickle down system that doesn't ever happen Like these people don't give back like they say they do and I know you there's gonna be arguments with this and it's like yeah It works. It works. It works, but it's like I sit there and I watch billionaires become multi billionaires and inevitably gonna get into trillionaires and you guys are gonna tell me that I should thank them for that point Oh, oh, oh one percent they give back like Thanks. That nobody ever sees. You know, thanks, I guess? Like, you know what? Like, it just doesn't happen. And it's like, Congress is embedded. Like, the tax codes are ridiculous. Every year I cringe. Like, just in regards to what I have to, like, sit there and contribute more and more and more and more. And it's never enough. And I'm blessed. Like, thank God I do well. But it's like, It's painful, because like then you see like the other side of it, and it's like you're just keeping, you're keeping everybody down, and it's, it's, it's when, when is enough?

Jason Kleiger: 58:06

Yeah, it's kicking the ladder down, it really is. You know, it's the people who either get in power or they get in wealth. They don't want people following them, and they enact policies or lobby. And I know we're getting a little bit away here, but, um, you know, they enact policies and lobby, you know, politicians to, uh, make laws and skew, uh, especially the tax code in favor of, uh, Certain people and and it really does kick the ladder down and and you know people don't want to have People follow in their footsteps or accumulate the wealth that they have

Bisendra Melaram: 58:41

well There's a lot of people that feel like the two of well the three of us And that's why Americans are leaving right Americans are leaving the country no no they're becoming expats and I try to beat the draft No, they're leaving the country there. They're going to places in Central Central America South America and abroad. Late last week, since the 1930s, there's never been a mass exodus of this magnitude. and everybody knows, I'm not shy about it. When Bisendra retires, Bisendra is going to Costa Rica. But I have my own reasons for that. And I'm really getting tired of what Mr. Marcus depicted. It's just like, there's no benefit. No matter how hard you work, no matter how much you put into the system, The system is not fruitful for the middle class

Jason Marcus: 59:37

no, and it's like until the middle class realizes that they have to start Electing independents like it's never gonna change like you gotta get away from like they're so smart on how they divided all you guys And it's like the funny thing is is I sit there and have these conversations Where it's like you guys picked the left or the right and it's like most of you guys even making that choice You're down the middle and it's like how are you not recognizing the fact that we can have power To change this thing, but it's like they're so Have you so twisted that you think you need to be on one side of this fence or another? I have never met in my life a person that I agree with everything that they say You Never. I've never met it. So you're sitting there on either side of this fence. You're sitting there and you're swallowing the garbage that they're feeding you and Literally going against your own personal ethics to agree with somebody that doesn't represent the ideologies that you believe in just because 70 percent of what they say you believe in or 60 or 80, whatever it is, and you just think that it's like the other side so bad. But guess what? You still agree with 20 30 percent of what they're saying and it's like you're not voting down the middle like I just don't understand it It's been driving me nuts forever. I know I'm on my soapbox I was a political science major and like this kind of gets me all heated I could have got what basically become a teacher go to law school or go into mortgages like I went that route because at the end of the day and My wife kind of gets a little annoyed at me that I disconnect myself from politics for most of the reason probably because you guys see me go ballistic and explode like a lunatic, but it's because I understand that. I can't tolerate the way that we're getting controlled by all these guys and it's, it's, it's embarrassing. It's straight up embarrassing. We should all be embarrassed.

Jason Kleiger: 1:01:40

It, it, you know, it, it, it sucks that every four years it comes down to who is the lesser of two evils. It really has become that. And it, and it's horrible. Because, Maybe on one party, I agree with one thing that I put so much weight behind that it, you know, it forces me, I guess you could say, to vote for that party. Rather than, you know, maybe I agree with that one thing. And the other side has, you know, you know, well, that's a couple things I agree with here and there, but you know what? They're not they're not killers. Okay, but that one thing I need to have and therefore I'm voting for this You know party

Bisendra Melaram: 1:02:21

and that's what they bank on. Oh 100. That's what either side banks on that you you find some That one attribute that you connect with and resonate with that you will you like lay down for it's not happening

Jason Marcus: 1:02:33

I'm constantly trying to take the eyes off the like where I really You sat down and I'm like, Oh my God, these guys are good. Like to sit there and go put abortion as the main focus, again, trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Doesn't matter what side you lean on on this, you got to understand that was done for a reason. It's like you have that immigration problem. You have these foreign lunatics doing all these things. You got all these crazy, bigger problems. So what do they do? They plop something that Our generation, like it's just been this way. Mm-Hmm., since we've been alive and you have the highest court in the nation, you try to take my focus off of all these problems and put it on that. Mm-Hmm., like, I don't care what side of this fence that you're on, I'm disgusted that that's what you're trying, you're embarrassing me. Yeah.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:03:37

It's a, by you

Jason Marcus: 1:03:37

trying to like sit there and shove things down my throat, like, and make me think about things that I don't need to think about. So again. Take a deep breath, Jay. You're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. But this is the type of stuff that agitates me, where it's like, they are pulling the strings, we all, like, the intelligent people in this nation understand this, we can do nothing about it, and it's just like, I, I've chosen to shut that television off as opposed to fight one way or the other.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:04:04

Yeah, you're right. That's the only way to do it, is shut, shut it down. You know and I combat that every day people are like, oh I saw on the news. Oh, I saw on the news Oh, I saw on the news. I yeah, that's

Jason Marcus: 1:04:16

We know this is the craziest thing anybody that's been in this business knows this NAR thing Has everybody twisted and going crazy with talking about it weeks, weeks, and like this isn't gonna be a big deal. It's not. It's not. Cuz like the market itself is a free market system. It's going to adjust to it and no matter what like we'll play with inside your stupid rules. But at the end of the day it will get dealt with. Like we already are starting to plan and understand how we're going to work through this. And it's like, okay, congratulations, high five yourself. You did nothing for consumer protection and you think you did. Congratulations. Nothing's really going to change. The seller's still going to continue to pay the entire commission and it's all going to work out. The only thing that you stopped is basically real estate agents, double siding deals. And they'll still find a way to do it. Listen,

Bisendra Melaram: 1:05:05

It doesn't bother me, because I don't like to double end deals. I, because I like what Jay depicted, which is equal representation. Equal representation! You got that right! Yeah, which is great! Right?

Jason Marcus: 1:05:16

But leave everything

Bisendra Melaram: 1:05:17

else

Jason Marcus: 1:05:17

alone.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:05:17

Leave it alone.

Jason Marcus: 1:05:18

Leave it alone. It works. It's fine. Nobody's complaining about it. You would think that, like, you see some sort of documenta Can you guys show me They

Speaker1: 1:05:25

can't.

Jason Marcus: 1:05:26

The complaints on the way that the system was where you had people losing their mind or somebody that got taken advantage. Can you show me where that is? Anywhere? So, I did a little deep dive. And there's no, there's no

Bisendra Melaram: 1:05:37

evidence. There's no evidence of anyone taking advantage of the system. Or, a system that was broken. So what I've been able to surmise Is that there had to have been agents in some capacity that represented a buyer and took and did it too many times. what I call the reverse double end. Mm,

Speaker1: 1:06:00

that's

Bisendra Melaram: 1:06:01

right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please go on. It is not non-sexual seller. His

Jason Marcus: 1:06:04

money and charge the borrower charge double dip.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:06:06

Yeah. He double dipped. Right. Took money from the buyer and the seller. I've seen that, and then they must have done it too many times. And then somebody was like, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, because that's the only thing that makes sense because the only piece of that I've seen come out of this litigation is that a buyer's agent has to state the max commission they're going to charge in totality. And they can their commission earned at the table cannot exceed that dollar that percentage. That's fine.

Jason Marcus: 1:06:39

It's fine.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:06:39

So that's the only thing that made any sense. I was like wait, cuz the whole thing is shit, right? It's it's complete bollocks. Like it's It's all trash. I don't know who wrote this thing or how they came up with it But the only thing that made sense I was like, okay, that's not a bad thing. So like we're capped cool next and nothing else

Jason Marcus: 1:06:59

makes sense And at the end of the day, it's like, you find these little problems, which you can fix, easily fix, like already came up like, I mean, this isn't a rocket scientist convention right here. Like we're pretty smart individuals, but like literally can solve the problem in a one hour podcast. Just by freely thinking about logically how like this can be done, but yet they somehow Continue to create thing and I am I guarantee I mean I can't guarantee it But I can almost bet that whoever Started this whole Escapade has no experience in this

Bisendra Melaram: 1:07:45

I agree and it's always the same thing I agree because they have no experience inclination as the inner workings of how the system works

Jason Marcus: 1:07:52

or how a free market system works because honestly you're going to get to a point with when you're trying to limit and structure Commission caps or any of these things you're inevitably going to violate the constitution You're eventually going to get to that point and it's going to work its way up the courts and it's going to get thrown out You cannot tell A person in a free market system how much they are limited to making you're you're going that's what they're trying to run into a problem with that you congratulations by pulling that off in the banking world. You are very clever you got the people like me who are loan originators to get capped. So that way you can consumer protect what you did, leaving it. So that way the banks on the secondary market can still continue to make as much as they want. So all you did was make the rich richer. You basically took the middle class worker that's actually originating the loans and you put me in my place. Congratulations on that. So good job on that. Dodd, Frank, you guys did amazing. And now you're trying to do it to independent contractors who are working under real estate umbrellas. You can't do that Einstein. So why don't you get to the point where the highest Court in the land sits there and you get this in front of them and they tell you where to stick it. You'll remember this conversation on why you can't do that in a free market system. This isn't rocket science. We're not rocket scientists. This is logic.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:09:17

It is boom. I just I just had an a light bulb go off. And I've been talking people off the fence about this thing for the last better part of a week. I'm like, Why are you worried? Just calm down. It's a curve. Relax. It's not that serious. Because business has been conducted this way in excess of 100 years. And there's never been a problem until right now. So relax. It's not that serious. What happens is people get scared. They get frightened. They're like, Oh, it's the end of the buyers agents, the end of the buyers agent. It's not relax. So it's gonna cause a lot of agents to leave. Right, so this is just what I now think is indirect impact. The more agents that leave, there's less agents. What's gonna happen? Everyone's gonna raise their price, right? Because free market, I could charge whatever I want. It's what up to you whether or not you want to pay me. So if I raise my price, and you agree because there's not an other suitable representation, they just inadvertently made an agent like me more money.

Jason Marcus: 1:10:20

Oh, a hundred percent. Just think of the logic. You sit there and you're a listing agent. You're like, you go to your your, you go to your client, you're like, Hey, listen, I am going to take a 6% commission. Okay, you're gonna pay me 4%. I'm gonna give 2% out to the buyer broker in this case. But now. You guys are sitting there creating a rule telling the buyers agent that they should get the money from the From the buyer. So now the buyer's agent signs a buyer broker, gets that 2%, but that listing agent isn't going to be like, well, I was going to give that 2 percent to the buyer, uh, agent, but now I'm going to just disconnect. No, they're going to, they've agreed to that 6%. They're going to keep the 6%. You just literally made that listing agent more money and charge the person who's struggling to get the money together to do a transaction because of the agent. egregious fees that the counties and the municipalities and the title companies, all of these crazy things in New York, that's being charged by the, to these bar 25, 30, 000 in closing costs. Now you want them on a 500, 000 has to pay 10, 000 more on 2 percent commission. And that listing agent who still agreed to a 6 percent commission. All you did was make them more money. Do you think you did a good job here, Congress? Do you guys think you're doing a smart idea? Can you just talk to somebody that understands anything before you make decisions? No, they don't realize what they're doing. Creating fear for no reason? No,

Bisendra Melaram: 1:11:50

it, it, because let's just say the buyer pays, right? And they finance it. They incorporate. They now have to pay a portion of that plus interest, PMI for 30 years. You know what I'm saying? Like, it makes zero sense. What consumer's getting protected in there? There is none. Where is there consumer protection? Isn't that what this is about? It's not. They, they make a good argument that it is, but if you're really listening, it's not making any sense. It's not protecting the consumer. At all. That's how

Jason Marcus: 1:12:20

you debate.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:12:21

At all. But, you know, hopefully, because even if on the, if I had to take the buyer, like the other end of the blade, and be the buyer's agent, I'm charging more money. Because now I gotta go. Defend twice why I'm worth what I'm worth. I'm gonna do all this stuff for you. I'm gonna negotiate for you I'm gonna find you I'm gonna source it I'm gonna do whatever and then I gotta go battle to get paid because now I had the way they structured is I have to build it in to the contract price

Jason Kleiger: 1:12:51

Just just give me the commission statement and I'll be fine. Yeah

Bisendra Melaram: 1:12:55

Right. That's all I care about. It's literally I mean, yeah, we've all been doing this for too long. That's why I'm not bothered by it. I'm bothered by the way they're telling me I need to do it.

Jason Kleiger: 1:13:09

Too much, too much government hand.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:13:11

Yeah, but I'm an independent contractor. What gives you the right to tell me how I need to run my business? I'm not violating anyone or any laws. Leave me alone.

Jason Kleiger: 1:13:20

They don't get it.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:13:21

That's all right. All right. Before you wanna do it, , . You won't do it. Me do it. You're, this is you. You're running this one buddy. You said?

Jason Kleiger: 1:13:33

No, I'm not touching that one with a, uh, . . Any

Bisendra Melaram: 1:13:37

closing statements Mr. Marcus?

Jason Kleiger: 1:13:39

I think I said it all. Um, thanks for entertaining my questions, gentlemen. Um, I'm glad you had some, a lot, a lot of those questions were for me personally, because. You guys are like the boots on the ground, essentially. And I'm up in my ivory tower. Literally. Yeah, right. Well, it's actually like grey metal with some windows and a parking lot outside. But, um, you know, I feel that Myself and, and the audience listening, uh, have learned a lot and, uh, have seen Mr. Marcus turn red a couple times. That's high blood pressure for sure. No, but that's the kind of guy you want working for you. No, he, he was, uh, tanning and yes, uh, I, I agree. Um, but thank you gentlemen and, uh, I look forward to hosting myself in the next state of the market with Bisendra and Mr. Marcus.

Bisendra Melaram: 1:14:30

Awesome. You did a great job. Thank you. Thank you. I'm, I'm actually impressed. That's all for today. Castle dwellers. Remember knowledge is power, especially when it comes to real estate for more valuable insights and expert advice. All of our contact information and website is in the show description below. And remember subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks gents. This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it because I didn't have to do

Jason Marcus: 1:14:54

Nothing,

Bisendra Melaram: 1:14:55

you did great.

Jason Kleiger: 1:14:57

I did terrible.