Bisendra Melaram: [00:00:00] 

Welcome back to the keys to the castle podcast. I'm Bisendra Melaram. You're a realtor joined with. 

Jason Marcus: Jason Marcus from Mr. J Marcus's Neighborhood and Mortgage Extraordinaire. 

Jason Kleiger: Well, I can't beat that, but, uh, Jason Kleiger, uh, Attorney to the Stars, Nebula, and Milky Way Galaxy. 

Bisendra Melaram: Today, we're joined with Ms.

Michelle Lagrassa she's a Property Tax Consultant with Halloran Consultants. Hi, Michelle, how are you? Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. So today we're going to talk a little bit about tax grievance and because there's a lot of misconception and misinformation she's going to help us debunk a lot of misinformation about grieving your taxes.

So Michelle, just give us a little background as to how you got your experience in property tax consulting, and what got you involved in helping your [00:01:00] clients reduce their property 

Michele LaGrassa: taxes. Yeah, sure. So I have been working mostly with realtors, people in the mortgage industry, helping homeowners. property taxes for, I can't believe, more than 13 years.

Um, I always loved real estate, but my background is in accounting, so I also love numbers. So, I just They fell upon this position that was available and loved it, and it's the longest I think I've done anything. So more than 13 years. That 

Bisendra Melaram: sounds like me. Like, well, how did you become a realtor? It just happened upon me.

Exactly. My father said, get your license. 

Jason Marcus: I remember going to college and being like, I just want to be a loan officer for a mortgage bank. 

Bisendra Melaram: What? Yeah. 

Jason Kleiger: I had my degree in poli sci and it was like, be a teacher or be a lawyer. I don't know if I chose the right path, but I love being a lawyer. 

Bisendra Melaram: So Michelle, explain to us what grieving your taxes really is.

 some people [00:02:00] think grieving your taxes will guarantee you a reduction in your property taxes or. just really what is it? Because it's a lot when I tell people, well, don't worry about the taxes, have it grieved and see what happens. What does that mean? They're like, what? I get the deers in 

Michele LaGrassa: the headlight look.

Yeah, I mean a lot of people, there are, like you were saying earlier, there's a lot of misunderstanding, misconceptions about property tax grievance. I'll say a lot of people are afraid of it because they feel like, what if I complain about my taxes and I don't pay very much? What if they find out I'm not paying enough and then my taxes are going to go up?

So New York is quite different than most other states, um, in that. It's against the law for them to raise your taxes because you filed a grievance. So a grievance is, um, basically a complaint about your property's assessment. So that's different than a tax bill. It does impact your tax bill. But it's important for people to know you're not complaining, My tax bill is too high.

You're complaining my assessment is too high. That [00:03:00] basically means that Whether you're assessed by a town, if you're in Suffolk County, you'll be assessed by a town. If you're in Nassau County, you're assessed by the county, the county assessor. Um, you're basically saying to that assessor, the value that you're assigning to my property is too high.

It is not at the value that you are taxing me at. And so it is a complaint against that value. And when you reduce that assessed value, that then translates to a lower tax bill. So, I don't know if that clears it up at all. Oh, 

Bisendra Melaram: for me, I'm great. So, you said the county assesses, but what about if you live in a village?

Michele LaGrassa: So, that's a great question also. Um, villages do have their own assessors. They perform their own assessments. Several villages will use the county's or the town's assessment. So when that changes, they'll automatically adjust it. But most have their own. Most villages do assess every year. You can grieve your village taxes as well.

So when someone submits a grievance [00:04:00] to, say, they live in Nassau County. They apply for a property tax grievance that does not automatically grieve their village taxes for them. So if they hire a professional company, the company may do that, but they should probably ask about it and ensure that both are being grieved.

Very often the village assessments are fair, though, because villages Uh, many of them do reassess every year, so it'll always be current market value, which is fair. Which is fair. I like fair. Fair. Fair is fair. That's what it should all be about. 

Bisendra Melaram: So, when these government bodies do the assessment, what factors do they take into consideration other than your supposed properties value.

Michele LaGrassa: So it really is the property's value. That's what it should be based on. It should always be based on what the current market value of the property is. However, most towns do not reassess every year. I've been doing this for 13 years, like I mentioned, over 13 years now, and I've never had a Suffolk County [00:05:00] town reassess the homes.

It is against the law for them to reassess any individual property. Um, Uh, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um The value is assigned based on today's current market value.

But what happens when the real estate market changes? If the home becomes worth less in the future because of a down market, or it goes up because of a higher market, that assessment still does not change. So there is such a thing as having a low assessment for the value of a property. People do get, and I always put this in air quotes, like good deals on their property taxes.

That's possible and that's, you know, a common occurrence in Suffolk County. Um, Nassau works a bit differently. They do, they're actually, they were, in 2008, they were ordered by a court to reassess the entire county every 10 years. So that's why they did this. It was supposed to be 2018. But there was a new county executive, so they [00:06:00] asked, she asked for another year.

So that's why they had the reassessment in 2019. Um, and it will be done again. They, they're under a court order to reassess every property in the county every 10 years. Ow. 

Bisendra Melaram: Well, I guess that's beneficial to the homeowners. 

Michele LaGrassa: It can be. I will, uh, a bit of advice that I will say is every Nassau property owner should file a grievance every year.

There's nothing to lose by trying. Um, there's a few things that I'm sure we'll talk about as we go, you know, finish our conversation today, but, um, you, you should file a grievance every year. There's nothing to lose by trying. It can't hurt. It can only help. And it's the only way to ensure that you're always paying.

Just your fair share and not more the one thing I've 

Jason Marcus: kind of been head scratching it because I've had properties in other states where It's literally just like hey you bought this property for X amount of dollars This is the percentage in regards to what this is and here's what your taxes are But yet we come here and it's like my neighbor's paying 2, 000 [00:07:00] less than me He has the same square footage in the same house.

Do we have any idea like? That guy behind the curtain on how do you come up with these crazy numbers 

Michele LaGrassa: and stuff like that. Sometimes does seem like there's no rhyme or reason. I will tell you that, um, that's a, I get this question every single day where someone will come to me and say, yeah, but my neighbors only, I have the same house, or they have a nicer house than me, or they have a bigger house than me, and their taxes are less.

How is that fair? So. A neighbor, when you're grieving a tax, grieving taxes is basically your complaint. It's your way of saying, my assessment is too high, right? So we have, we're legally allowed to, to file a complaint about that. A neighbor's property tax bill or assessment is not an argument for reduction.

Only the current market value. And you mentioned other states. That's why I said New York is a little bit different. If you buy a house in New Jersey. Whatever you pay for it, that's what the assessment is going to be. Um, there are a few towns [00:08:00] in Suffolk that, I'll say Southampton specifically, they do reassess because think about it, there's such a small number of homes compared to some other townships, so they have the ability to do that and probably the manpower and time, so typically when you're buying a home in the town of Southampton, they are going to make that adjustment.

to that current market value. But that's a, you know, one town out of how many? 

Jason Marcus: So does grieving only exist 

Michele LaGrassa: here? I think no, there's other states that grieve Texas, California. There's quite a few other states, but Fewer than than most most of them do not grieve 

Jason Kleiger: Now, you know as part of a real estate closing clients buying a house or selling they fill out this form called equalization form RP 52 17 and

Jason Marcus: That's how you debate, ladies 

Bisendra Melaram: and gentlemen. Yeah, 

Jason Marcus: that's what you 

Jason Kleiger: get. Whoa! Whoa, what happened there? [00:09:00] Okay, so, no, no, no. My question is, now, that gets reported. So, I was always wondering, let's say this person bought a house, you know, a hundred years ago. Um, you know, they kept it in a terrible, uh, condition, but the market increased, they fought, they, we have the equalization form, um, and, you know, it's being assessed as if it were, let's say, 500, 000, and for some reason it goes for 730, 000.

Now, when that form gets filed Does that have any effect? Like, does, you know, the town, you know, town of Huntington, let's say, I know they have to recess the whole place, but do they look at, okay, this specific house sold for more than what, you know, is going on in 

Michele LaGrassa: the neighborhood? Okay, so there's, usually it's good news.

This is one of those instances where, um, there's one caveat, which I'll share in a second, but typically, no, that, there is a very good chance that the buyer is going to have, Get a good deal on the taxes. They're not going to increase the assessment just because of a higher purchase price. So I get that a lot.

The caveat is if [00:10:00] there are open permits, if there are things that are not CO'd, what I see often, let's say typically, okay, there is, you know, a finished basement that wasn't CO'd. And say, the value that it would have added to that property, the taxable value that it would have added to the property, I would say is 20, 000.

Still, now, if they bought the house for, what did you say? What was your example? Uh, they bought it for 730. They bought it for 730 and it's taxed at 500. Yes. Instead of just increasing the assessment now to 520, 000 for that basement, the town is going to kind of lean in their favor a little bit more. This is their opportunity to kind of get what they deserve, sort of, on this property.

So now maybe they'll increase the assessment to 600, 000. It's still going to be a good deal. And it's going to allow the buyer to add their COs, get everything legalized, without really a tremendous impact on the tax bill. 

Jason Kleiger: Well, that's okay. As long as they haven't gone from 500 to 730 just because someone, [00:11:00] you know, closed out a permit.

Right. 

Michele LaGrassa: Now, I will tell you guys, I had an interesting, this happens fairly often also, an interesting situation when it comes to exemptions. So, um, an agent that purchased a property reached out to me and said, I just, my taxes just went up like, I bought the house six months ago and my taxes just went up like 6, 000.

He goes, I bought it from my elderly, you know, family member. And I said, well, you were taking exemptions that You didn't qualify for so they're billing you back. That doesn't happen with tax grievance They don't bill you back and you also if you're being overtaxed and you grieve you don't get your past money back either They'll take it back, but they don't give it back.

You know, I mean, they'll go after it. Yeah Yeah, if you owe them you owe them the other way around

Bisendra Melaram: Gotta hold that 

Jason Kleiger: escrow. Yeah, person's not entitled to an enhanced star, a veteran's star, veteran's exemption. Better hold 

Bisendra Melaram: that escrow. You know, that's a popular problem, is that listing agents, when they go and they take listings, they don't independently verify the taxes. And it's like a 30 second thing, you know, you go, if it's Nassau [00:12:00] County, it's like, you go to my Nassau County, my property, whatever.

And then you plug the address, the lot and block in, and it'll tell you, and you can just look at it. They don't do that. And I'm like, well, why are you putting Exempted taxes up on the listing and there's a clear feel in the MLS. It says, yeah Yeah without exempt 

Jason Kleiger: and the big thing is it usually happens with trusts and estates When trusts and estates are selling a house that generally means that when that last person the last homeowner dies They get that they the The next heir.

So the next heir is usually, I don't know, like 50, but doesn't qualify for an enhanced star. Um, probably owns another house, so doesn't even qualify for the regular star exemption. Um, and if that house was not sold for three years, New York State's going to come after that money. That, you know, they got the vets, the exemption, they got the enhanced star, they come after that money.

So 

Bisendra Melaram: when they, when you say come after They come after at the, at the table? [00:13:00] They come 

Jason Kleiger: after, no. They put a levy. They, uh, yep, they will come after the, uh, the property. So it doesn't attach to the actual person. So it doesn't attach to the estate or the trust. Whoever the homeowner at the time is that New York State actually realizes this, New York State will go after them to get the back Uh, enhanced star that the 

Bisendra Melaram: previous owner is the one that gets 

Jason Kleiger: stuck.

Yeah, that's why you gotta, you know, you have to have your attorney, um, escrow for that. If, uh, if the house was there for two years and the name of an estate and the first heir is not entitled to exemptions, better hold some escrow because New York State's coming after you. Oh, and they better 

Bisendra Melaram: get a good attorney to make sure that they can read that correctly.

That's 

Jason Marcus: right. I always, I always get the call first. Oh 

Bisendra Melaram: yeah, you do. Every single time. You get 

Jason Marcus: the call first. Every single time. Every single time I get the call first. Because, like, the first thing people look to do is, like, unfortunately pass blame. I just did the mortgage, [00:14:00] and it's like There's no possible way I could have known that that also but to your point on the real estate side now It's not as bad obviously doing this now for several decades like earlier years in my career the validation of taxes Was not happening These guys were basically just asking a 90 year old how much they pay in taxes, throwing it on a listing, my client buys it, it's like, Oh yeah, you just lost the veteran, you lost the senior, like all these 

Bisendra Melaram: discounts, and like boom, 

Jason Marcus: sometimes it's a qualifying problem, like where I'm so tight, and then all of a sudden, like, title comes in, true taxes come in, and this is three quarters of the way through the process.

So, uh, if you're listening out there, Realtors, always Validate those taxes for me, please. 

Michele LaGrassa: And the problem comes even, even think about a poor buyer. They buy this home and even if they think, Oh, these taxes seem really low. They think they're getting away with it. Like, I'm not going to say anything. And then all of a sudden they're hit with [00:15:00] their, not only their true taxes, but the back taxes.

Oh. For the time that they took the exemption when they didn't qualify. And it can be, you know, then they're in a tough spot. Yeah. So, it's important that people do know. I get calls from 

Bisendra Melaram: buyers all the time about it. Oh, I just saw this house on, you know, that website that starts with a Z. And it says that the taxes are, uh, 6, 500.

I'm like, where? I'm like, where? That's basically my mind, like, oh, another one. I'm like, but that's what the website is saying. I'm like, okay, well, that's because they are using incorrect data. That's why you should be using a more, you know. I don't want to get into That's a different podcast. That's a whole other thing, right?

So, and then I say to them, give me five minutes, I'll call you back. I'll check, or you can go check. And I give them the website. I'm like, go to this, fill out the information, and you can verify it independently. They're like, I can. I don't need, like, your access code. I'm like, I just gave it to you.

They're like, okay. And they're like, wait. It's saying something, it's three times as much. I'm that's because it is. [00:16:00] 

Jason Kleiger: Now, Michelle, I have a quick question. So I tried to once figure out what they're assessing because obviously you see assessment and it's like 2, 300 or 4, 500 and you know your house is not worth 4, 500.

And, you know, certain municipalities, Nassau, uh, Town of Huntington, which, you know, I have a property in, but, uh, you know, they give you this formula. And, like, you have to figure out, like, what dollar amount they're actually attributing to your house. Like, why do they do that? Why does this come into 

Michele LaGrassa: play here?

I think it, I think it benefits them, keeping people confused, probably. You know? Um, and also, specifically, the town that you're talking about. Um, so, a lot of If real estate agents are listening, you guys are all familiar with, um, what a public record looks like, and that's where you'll see that number that you're talking about, like 4, 500.

So, that is an assessed value of the property. That is a number that does not change except for in two ways. This is how I said earlier, some properties can be under assessed. That [00:17:00] number only changes two ways. One is if you have a successful property tax grievance. That number would be reduced, and that's the number that's multiplied by the tax rate to generate your tax bill.

So it can come down if you have a successful grievance, or it will be increased if you have an improvement to the property that required a permit and a CO, right? So that's the only way that number changes. Otherwise, it remains with the property. Now, even during a sale, right, except those two things, if there is improvement and stuff.

So that number stays with the property. There is something called a Residential Assessment Ratio, otherwise known as RAR. That is a number that is delivered by New York State every year. It's based on the prior year sales in that township, in that municipality, the county, if it's Nassau, and that number is generated by New York State.

That is then divided into your assessed value. And it translates to your current taxable market value. So that can change. So that, this is why I said earlier, when people should [00:18:00] grieve every single year, imagine that ratio can change every year. So we can have a property that, you know, is assessed at 4, 500.

That number doesn't change, but, you know, one year that translates to a taxable market value of 480, 000, let's say, in the house. Similar homes are selling for 500, 000. So it's fair. 480, 000 is fair. But just with a change of that ratio the next year, now all of a sudden that can translate to a taxable value of 520, 000.

And homes are still selling. Now there's a case for a grievance. So, with nothing else changing, sometimes that can affect someone's ability to qualify. So you should Check every year. So yeah, every town has their own ratio. It can change every year. They keep people confused. 

Jason Kleiger: Yeah, you know, I fill out these, you know, paperwork for, you know, just buying and selling and, and, you know, it says assessed value and it's like 2, 300 or 2, 300.

It's not even like a dollar. No, it's just 

Bisendra Melaram: 2, 

Michele LaGrassa: 300. 

Bisendra Melaram: Man, no decimals. 

Jason Kleiger: So thank you for explaining it, because, you know, I've been doing this for a while, 

Michele LaGrassa: and I got confused with that. Yeah, the town of Islip will have numbers like [00:19:00] 58, 200. Huntington will have 4, 500. Like, it's, it's not even uniform across the towns.

No, it's, it's I'm 

Bisendra Melaram: interested to know how each individual town comes up with their number. 

Michele LaGrassa: Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. 

Bisendra Melaram: Red tape, red tape. Yeah, I'm like, what do they just sit down and like, okay, let's just start pulling numbers out like it's Bingo? 

Jason Kleiger: That looks like a 4500 to me. They like drive around and be like, eh, 2300 over there.

Bisendra Melaram: So, Michelle, that sounds very Mathematical. So, This mathematics. So, what would you say are some effective strategies for reducing property taxes? Like if, if you were talking to your cousin who's just a regular person, they just bought a house and they're listening, what would be some things that they need to look out for when they're trying to do it themselves?

Right. 

Michele LaGrassa: Okay. So, um, remember the first and foremost is you want to remember that. You're not arguing about your tax bill, you're arguing the assessment on the property. So you don't want to [00:20:00] complain my tax bill is too high, you want to say my assessment is too high. The first thing to do would be to find out what your assessment is and how you would do that.

I mean, professional companies can help you with this, some agents, I try to educate them. They may, you'll know this because we've talked about this before. So contact an agent, you would know, okay, I'm going to take that assessed value number, find out what the current RAR ratio is, determine what the assessment is, and then you're going to, if your home is not for sale, or you haven't recently purchased it, say within the last year or so, your argument is going to be based on comparable recent sales, and it has to be an arm's length transaction.

It can't be like the foreclosure, foreclosure next door, you know, that doesn't count. Um, it has to be an arm's length transaction. The three, say, average closest sales, whatever their average sale price is, that is, should be what your assessment is. And if your assessment is lower than that, then you probably won't have a case for a reduction.

If your assessment is higher than [00:21:00] that, then you probably do. But here's a little tip. Um, in Suffolk County, I'd say close to 100 percent of the time, if a homeowner files a grievance on their own, they are going to receive a denial. They have a limited amount of time to respond to the complaint. They're going to receive a denial, and at that point, what happens is many homeowners think, Oh, I tried, my assessment was fair, oh well.

And really, what needs to happen is further processes, they need to file an appeal. And the appeal can be a little bit complicated, it has to be filed with the school district, with the town clerk, with the assessor's office, and then you have to wait for a court date. So it's a lengthy process, about a year.

Wait, you said 

Bisendra Melaram: court date? Yeah. Is 

Jason Kleiger: this SCAR that I hear about? It is SCAR. 

Bisendra Melaram: Okay. 

Michele LaGrassa: So this is SCAR. Suffolk County Assessment Review. Right, of course, exactly. It's very easy. Bingo. 

Bisendra Melaram: Awesome. I could do this tomorrow. 

Michele LaGrassa: Which is why I, you know, listen, I always [00:22:00] say hire a professional. I hire a company, I hire my company to do my own taxes and, you know, I had an agent say to me once, you know, you could also cut your own hair, it doesn't mean you should, you know.

Right. So. So. So. So. So. So, um. Yeah, look at 

Bisendra Melaram: me. For me. 

Michele LaGrassa: You cut your own hair. I do, I do, I do. So, the first bit of advice would be to know that just because you received a denial does not mean that you don't have a case for a reduction. You should file an appeal. Nassau County gets a little trickier because what they'll do is they'll actually give you an offer for a reduction.

Sometimes they'll give offers to people that technically don't qualify. Very often, they'll give offers to people that are far less than they should actually be receiving. Oh, that is tricky. So, I tell everyone, if you're going to try this on your own, do not accept the first offer from Nassau County. Test Negotiation 101.

Right. Do not accept. Well, the county will send a homeowner a letter. If they filed a grievance, they'll send a letter and say, [00:23:00] Hey, we've determined You're property is over assessed. You know, we are going to reduce your assessment from 540 to 520. Please sign this form and return it to us that you are in agreement and that you accept our offer.

If you don't return the form, you don't get anything. Which means, well, if I'm over assessed, shouldn't you just reduce it for me? But there's, but you, you, if you don't return the form, you get nothing. They want you to sign and accept it. So, I've had people reach out to me and say, Hey, my realtors would reach out to me and say, Hey, I have this listing, my client, was grieving their taxes on their own.

They got this letter and they're like, I'd like to accept it so we can show the home has lower taxes. I, you know, on the listing. And I said, well, that's nothing that we would ever accept as a professional grievance company. I, my, my advice is to reject it, file an appeal, get a court date. 

Bisendra Melaram: So explain the appeal process.

If you get to that stage in either county or any county and. You get an offer or a rejection and you want to file the appeal. What [00:24:00] does that typically look like before you have to get 

Michele LaGrassa: to court? So, well, it's a lot of just waiting. It's a lot of just waiting for the court date. You're telling them you don't accept the offer or in Suffolk County you file an appeal and then you're just waiting then for them to give you a date to tell.

It's usually about a year. And, or more in Suffolk County especially, 18 months or so, depending on when you filed. And now, I'll say this also, there are filing deadlines, what a lot of people don't realize is Nothing is, even though you can apply all year long, we accept applications all year long, people are, you cannot, if you're applying on your own, you can only do it on grievance day, in your county or in your town.

Bisendra Melaram: Why did you make it sound like a holiday? I 

Jason Marcus: have grievances every day. I do Festivus just to be 

Jason Kleiger: fair though. 

Michele LaGrassa: Those grievances are for like Lucy and Charlie Brown, right? Five cents to complain or something. 

Bisendra Melaram: Wow. 

Michele LaGrassa: Yeah. Oh, no. So, you grieve on [00:25:00] Grievance Day. Professional companies will accept it, but everything really happens at a deadline.

March 1st is Nassau County, um, March 1st is the Nassau County Grievance Deadline for the 2025 26 tax year, so Nassau grieves into the future. If you miss the March 1st deadline, your next opportunity to reduce your taxes is 2026 27, which sounds crazy to me. Yeah. Suffolk County deadline is, uh, always the third Tuesday in May.

So it's May, uh, 21st this year. That is for 2024 25. So those won't be resolved until early 2025, but Suffolk County homeowners will get a refund. from the second half of two thousand twenty four. Oh, gotcha. We fund in Suffolk County most of the time. Most cases aren't resolved before the tax bills are issued.

Bisendra Melaram: Okay, so a year goes by, I get my appeal date to go to court. Right. What do I 

Michele LaGrassa: need to bring? So you need to bring, uh, your evidence that shows that your assessment is too high, which would be , if you didn't recently purchase [00:26:00] a home, comparable recent sales that are arms length transactions, they also have to be within a certain time period, there's, uh, valuation dates that come into play.

So, yeah. Mm-Hmm, , there's, there's a lot of moving parts here. So the valuation date is what was the value of the property on this specific date? And they'll look at. you know, a window around that date, you know, the year before, but in Nassau County, the valuation date is January 1st of the prior year. And in Suffolk County it's March 1st.

So they're going to look at who owned the property. This, this matters a lot when it's a distressed property, say, you know, you're selling a home that's vacant. It was foreclosed on and now you have a buyer. The buyer wants to read the taxes, but they don't close until. June, they're like, well, on March 1st, the home was vacant and it was not worth, you know, so the sale didn't close.

They can reject the grievance and make them wait another year. So that's why, again, do it every year. [00:27:00] 

Jason Kleiger: That brings me to something you were talking about, a distressed home. Can I just say that my home is a piece of junk and, uh, you know, I'm on a highway with like, you know, you know, broken down cars in my yard to kind of devalue my house.

Michele LaGrassa: So we've used that information. I would think that if it's, if it's close. Like, if someone, if we're aggrieving in taxes and we have a case and we're going to go and negotiate with the town or the county, I'll make those notes. If someone says those things to me that has, like, there's a sump, there's a, you know, a railroad behind my property, the overgrowth is encroaching, or things like you said, my neighbor is like, you know, 20 junk cars all over the lawn, my property value is impacted, we'll make those notes.

That alone is not going to win you a grievance. But if it's, 

Bisendra Melaram: all those cars have been parking on my lawn, off from the railroad, 

Michele LaGrassa: right? could move all those cars now, turn your property into a parking lot. Yeah, park on my lawn. No, um, but, you know, it could certainly be used as an argument if, you know, [00:28:00] if the town wants to compare your property to say a property around the corner that's the same and has a much higher value.

You could say, well, I have this, you know, negative situation and we would try to use that in our negotiation a little bit. Because it does impact the value, right? Yeah. If it's a home that recently sold, the sale price is the value. So if, you know, we can't do it, that wouldn't work in an argument, but if it's a home that hasn't sold for sure, 

Jason Marcus: a client comes to you guys, you're handling 90, 95 percent of this, or do you actually are just prepping them to send them to do this?

Oh, no, 

Michele LaGrassa: no, we are. We're handling everything from the minute they submit that application. We're preparing the petition to file, you know, with the grievance to the town or the county where Trying to negotiate, we're waiting for a court date, we go to court, we do all that. So it's like, set it and forget it.

It is. Yeah. You don't have to think about it again. You guys 

Jason Marcus: out there better call Michelle. I'm not doing this myself. So, I mean, call her. 

Jason Kleiger: Definitely. [00:29:00] 

Michele LaGrassa: Super easy, right? Yeah, it's 

Bisendra Melaram: one phone call, one text message, and like, here's the papers. I already forgot the dates. I wrote it down and I gave up. I was just like, wait, I'm not gonna ever do this again.

Because I remember one time when I first bought my first house in Nassau County, it was in Baldwin. The taxes were like 20,000 and I, so I looked up the forms, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna grieve this thing. So I looked it up, I pulled all the forms down. I was like, oh, all they want are comps.

Guess who's the king of comps? Exactly. I pulled comps, I sent it back. They gave me $850 off. Okay. So mind you, mind you that, that the property is like. 3, 000 some odd square feet, less than 10 years old, and everything else. Oh, the big guy. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I should have picked a different house. Oh, yeah.

So I'm looking at this thing, I'm like, 850. I was like, okay, what do I do? And at that time, you know, you have young kids, you're just like, ah, it's fine, don't worry about it. And now here I'm thinking about it, and [00:30:00] then years later, we did it, and I think, I don't remember what I did, I got lucky. And I think the taxes went down, like, by a quarter.

But that's as the taxes were going up. Right. So, I was like, alright. 

Michele LaGrassa: Well, I'll tell you guys an interesting story. So, in 2017, I think it was in February 2017, this was on the cover of Newsday. There, it was the largest investigation to Nassau County taxes that was ever done. And what they found, they looked at the previous six year period.

What they found was that homeowners in Nassau County that had grieved their taxes even once. During that six year period, over those six years, their taxes had gone up, on average, about five percent. Homeowners that never grieved their taxes during that same six year period, their taxes went up over thirty five percent.

No way. Yes. So it's, if you didn't complain, you just kept getting an increase. They have [00:31:00] a budget. If you complained, they were reducing you, even if maybe you technically didn't qualify. So, grieve your taxes every year. Yeah, that's, you 

Jason Kleiger: know, that's an extra mortgage payment. . That 

Bisendra Melaram: is an extra mortgage payment 

Jason Marcus: or two.

Is the RAR across county or is it from town to town or how, like how does that 

Michele LaGrassa: work? In Suffolk County, it's town to town. Each count, each township in Suffolk County has their own assessor, so they have their own RAR, Nassau County. There's one assessor and one RAR for the entire county. That's to me, insane

And I'll tell you guys something else because Bisendra mentioned, um, the county website. which is, provides a lot of information compared to Suffolk County towns. Nassau County gives a lot of information about the property. 

Bisendra Melaram: Suffolk County's got everything like in a little lock box. Town, town, 

Jason Kleiger: yeah. So, no, Nassau County has the lock box on my Nassau property.

You ever see that where it's like school, oh yeah, yeah, it's like in the lock box. 

Bisendra Melaram: But it's still there, it's still there. Yeah, 

Michele LaGrassa: you can get it. However, what, what they did was, so, um, I'm sure everyone that [00:32:00] either works in real estate or, Has lived or lives in Nassau County, knows that they did that reassessment and they passed that taxpayer protection plan or the, you know, the five year phase in, uh, the TPP, you know, all those names for it.

Um. What a lot of people don't realize is when they did that, they also changed something called, well, this is the RER, the level of assessment. So, prior to, now it's been, you know how they show several years on the county website of the tax assessment and all that information? It used to show a level of assessment of 15, and it gave you like a property value that say, You know, say at that time, this is prior to 2019.

So 2000 say 18,19 tax bill. This is before it was reassessed, um, would say, you know, a level of assessment 0. 15. And it would have a property value of 360, 000. Meanwhile, the homeowner knows my house is worth 600, 000 at that time, right? So what they didn't know was that the level of assessment [00:33:00] was Not 0. 15.

It was 0. 25, but the county never updated it, never changed it. And I'll tell you, so now they changed the level of assessment to 0. 1%. So now if you guys look at my Nassau property, you'll see it'll say, um, 680. That means they're taxing my house at 680, 000. Pretty clear, right? Except that it's already not 0.

1%. It's 072 percent. So the level of assessment has already changed. So now that 680, 000, I don't want to do too much math and I don't have a calculator handy, but it's higher. It's not 680, 000 anymore. It's probably, if I'm just thinking about it, it's probably like 802, 000, let's say. So it made a huge difference in the value.

So a homeowner might think that they know what they're doing, say, oh, they're taxing me at 680, 000, my home's worth 750, 000. But really they're being taxed at 802, 000 and they don't know it. That's what I mean. You need to call a professional. 

Bisendra Melaram: I was just going to ask her, like, give us some tips and tricks for the [00:34:00] listeners who were ready to do this on their own.

Jason Marcus: Go get a magic eight ball 

Bisendra Melaram: and try to figure out these math equations. 

Michele LaGrassa: I'm just Oh, there's just, it, there's certain things that it makes sense to hire a professional. That's how, that's how I feel about it. Um, and I'm sure, you know, it's just like people that like for sale by owner, you know, like what?

Bisendra Melaram: I love 

Jason Kleiger: that. It's like the it's like the set it and forget it part is just you know And where where you would take it over and handle everything for me and I wouldn't have to You know, be concerned with like missing a court date 

Michele LaGrassa: and Well, you're also going to have a better outcome. It's, it's highly likely that you're going to have a better outcome.

If you did it on your own, let's just say, I see this in Nassau because Nassau does make offers, like I said. Someone's going to be like, yay, you know, I got my taxes reduced 800 and I didn't have to pay anyone to do it. But meanwhile, if you would hire a professional company. Maybe you would have had a 4, 000 reduction and it would have cost you 2, 2, 000, not 800, you know, 2, 000, not 800.

Well, guess who knows that [00:35:00] now? 

Bisendra Melaram: Right, there you go. Well, it's been a few years since then. I've learned a lot 

Michele LaGrassa: earlier. But that's, you know, that's how it 

Bisendra Melaram: works, basically. Education is expensive. That's the 

Jason Kleiger: FISBO tax grievance right there. Yeah, it is. 

Bisendra Melaram: Right. Oh, no. So, I'm trying to think. So, I'm really taken back by the number.

So, if someone When someone calls you, we just touched a little bit on the fee structure that you use, right? So, customer calls you, run it down, you get their taxes reduced, how is it they pay you? without using actual numbers. 

Michele LaGrassa: Like, yeah, I mean, typically once the case is resolved, we have to wait.

Once we'll know we're successful, we have to wait for that year's tax rates to come out. Then we take the reduction of the assessment that we won. Um, will Multiply that by the tax rates so we can determine what dollar amount we save them. And typically it's kind of an industry standard thing. Usually it's a, it's 40 50 percent of the savings.

That's how most companies work depending [00:36:00] on how they work and what they do. Um, some don't really go to court. Some just kind of file, some charge fees to just, Hey, here's a flat fee to pay me. And whether I win or not, you just pay this one fee. 

Bisendra Melaram: That flat fee stuff doesn't work in any industry. It doesn't give any incentive.

There's no incentive to get anything done. I'm still taken back by this whole not using a professional thing. And I'll tell you why. When Michelle said court. No, no, no. And this is something I learned very early in life, thank God. So, was, you always hire a professional. We spoke about this very early, right?

You always hire a professional. My father always used to say that. You go to court, you take a lawyer. When she said court, I was like, wait a second. I'm not in that line of practice. So I want a professional to represent me Because they know what they're doing so I'm now gonna advocate for everyone to get their taxes grieved professionally At a minimum have a conversation about it because maybe they don't like what they [00:37:00] hear because I've known Michelle for a few years She's very transparent.

She'll tell you I'll, I'll run a scenario and then I'll let you know. That's basically, I mean. That's 

Michele LaGrassa: what she says. Yeah. Someone could ask me and I'm going to let them know, like, Hey, you, your taxes are fair this year. You don't have a case. Check back with me next year because as we all now know, you guys know the RAR can change and that might have, they might have an ability to qualify in the future.

So check every year. Um, I'll just another bit of advice to people. I'll say so many people don't grieve their taxes because they're afraid. They're afraid that they, maybe they don't pay very much. A lot of times it's people that have a lot of exemptions, let's say, so they don't pay a lot. They still should grieve their taxes.

Um, because you can pay even less then. Um, and then what often happens is those people when they go to sell their properties, you'll go to list it, right? And then all of a sudden the taxes are through the roof because they never grieved. But people are afraid. It is against, they're not, they cannot raise your taxes just because you filed a grievance.

So you're protected against it. I would say there are the times that people are afraid is, [00:38:00] you know, they don't know that I converted my garage into a room. What's going to happen? You know, so that is an instance where they can call me. We could have a private conversation. I could advise them. Sometimes I might say, listen, if they really don't know about it, um, you know, then you have nothing to worry about.

But if you filed a permit, you left it open, you know, chances are you could be being taxed on it anyway. But if you're not, let's say it's gonna increase your taxes by You know, 500 a year, but if you file a grievance, we're going to reduce you 2, 500 a year. It's worth it. Do it. It is worth it. Yeah. But if it's the other way around, they'll say, oh, we're only going to save you 300.

Your taxes will go up 500 if you don't know about it. Just wait. Don't do it. 

Bisendra Melaram: So what do you guys think are some good questions when interviewing property tax consultants? 

Jason Kleiger: What are the odds? What, I know you spoke, I know you touched on it before. I see, what are the odds? But my, my biggest question, you know, um, let's just 

Bisendra Melaram: say that, uh, You never struck me as a gambler.

Jason Kleiger: The property, [00:39:00] the property that I had in, uh, town of Huntington is, is being under assessed. I, you know, I calculated the RAR, believe it or not, with my math head here. Um, so now I come over and I say, well, Well, what are the odds? You know, it's uh, and you know, this times the RAR comes out to this. I bought it for that and it wasn't that long ago.

What 

Michele LaGrassa: are the odds? I would say there are many properties that are over assessed. Um, but it is a, it's a case by case basis. It's very individual to the property. Um, you know, I could say that when we go to court on a case, we don't file in court unless we believe there's a case for reduction. When we go to court, I'd say we're 99 percent of the time we're successful.

Um, there might be something we didn't know about. You know, COs and things like that. Yeah, there's always that possibility. You know, so we don't guarantee, you know. No, I'm not holding you to it. Right, no, but I'd say we're, you know, if we go to court, we are going to be successful. But there's plenty of people that just submit applications online, we get them like, there's no [00:40:00] case, there's nothing we can do, we just put it aside.

So, it really, you know, there's no chances that I could say to a homeowner, oh, we're going to give you a 50 50 chance of being successful. That's, it's going to be, let me look at your property and I can tell you, then I'll tell you what the chances are. I'm going to say it's, you know, 95 percent chance that we're going to win or zero chance, you know, depending on what your assessment is and the value of your property.

So that's a great question though. A lot of people want to know that, um, I'd say, you know, average savings that we see is probably an average savings, maybe 33 to 4, 000 a year is an average. I mean, we, we do hold the records. There are. Some large reductions that we've had. Wait, wait, wait. 

Bisendra Melaram: Let's get into this.

Yeah. There's records 

Michele LaGrassa: for reductions. 

Jason Kleiger: Well, I guess if someone has like 150, 000 in taxes and lives in Upper Brookville or something. Yeah, there 

Michele LaGrassa: are. Yeah. Well, we had our Nassau County is, uh, I think it was, oh, about 73, 000 a year in savings on a residential property in Nassau. Wow. Yeah. 

Bisendra Melaram: You know I'm going to look [00:41:00] this up later, right?

Yeah. Because I want to see the house. You're just going to go through like all these mansions. no, no, because I do. No, I just want to know. I want to know like square footage because that's my thing. That's my number. Like, everyone calculates different, but I calculate it all based on square footage and location.

Hmm. 

Jason Kleiger: Hmm. Well, I guess if your taxes, you know, everything's relative. So if you have a, you know, a 50 million estate, and you're paying, you know, a million dollars in taxes a year, you know, 

Bisendra Melaram: could, could work out. Yeah, what does that work out to be in square footage? I have no idea. 

Michele LaGrassa: That's your real 

Bisendra Melaram: estate brain.

Yeah, I'm always going at that. So yeah, so there's records now. That's 

Michele LaGrassa: crazy. Suffolk County, um, the largest residential reduction was a little over 29, 000 a year in savings. They're a little 

Bisendra Melaram: cheaper 

Jason Kleiger: over there. 

Bisendra Melaram: So tell us some good, Horror and success stories. Cause, 

Michele LaGrassa: you know, I would be like I have a story.

Um Well, I've, uh, I've many stories over [00:42:00] 13 years, but here's one in particular. Um, and guys, this all points back to using a professional. So, I had, uh, an agent had asked me about a property that they had listed for sale. Um, I told them, I wrote a letter for them. So, typically if I'm working with an agent and their seller starts a grievance, I'm going to give them a letter that they can use for their listing that says that we're grieving, what we estimate the reduction will be, and the letter will say, I estimate that we can reduce the taxes.

You know, 7, 000 a year, let's say, and this was the, the situation. Um, the person, then we transfer that case over to a buyer then. So the buyer assumes the case once they purchase the property, and we see it through to the end with the buyer. Well, in this particular instance, the buyer of the property was a realtor.

No one that I knew, I've never worked with him before, even though I've been working with realtors for 13 years, did not know this person at all. He did not want us to, he wanted to do it on his own, he did not want us to, he wanted to cancel the case. It was at a point in time where we could pull it, not, it was like, the deadline wasn't closed yet, we hadn't done any much work on it yet.[00:43:00] 

We were able to cancel it, okay, without any penalty. So he, uh, you know, a year later, goes by, a year or so, he calls my office and he is livid. because the reduction he got was like 2, 500. And he was like, you said in this letter that it was a 7, 000 reduction. I said, hold on a second. I said, the letter says that we could win this reduction, you know.

So it was like one of those types of things, you know, and he was He was not happy and I'm like, huh, I told you, you know, you didn't want us to do it for you. I'll 

Bisendra Melaram: teach you. He's not privy to it. I guess so many realtor stories like that. Yeah. And you're supposed to know better. 

Michele LaGrassa: Right. So that was one instance.

Yeah. That's one, one tough story. Yeah. 

Bisendra Melaram: So a lot of times I get asked from sellers, right? Because I always make the proposition okay Well, have you grieved your taxes in previous years and they say no instantaneously. I'm okay Well, what [00:44:00] about if we start the process? They're like, oh it's never gonna be finished by the time we sell and I'm like, I know Because you hired a very good agent, right?

So what happens is we will transfer that over to the buyer to the new buyer and they will continue it and they will be Responsible for it Oh, no, I don't know if that's a good idea. What if they call me? It's one other thing. And I'm like, no, call your lawyer, ask your lawyer, lawyer tell you it's perfectly legal to do it.

So what what's your recommendation for stuff like that? You know, I don't advocate for a sale by owner because of little things like this. But what would your recommendation be if someone's thinking about planning or planning on selling their house in the next? It's 30, 60, 90 days as far as their taxes go, because tax bills just came out like a few months ago and everyone's like riling it up on Facebook, like, Oh my God, my taxes went up 6, 

Michele LaGrassa: 000.

Right. Well, uh, that's a, that, that leads me to another really good story about, you know, the seller should agree their taxes. It is going to help make their home more attractive to respective buyer, [00:45:00] especially like I'm saying with the Nassaui deadline coming. Think about that. If someone didn't file a grievance, someone purchased a house on March 2nd and their taxes are too high.

They would now have to pay those two high taxes until 2026 27. So, you're really doing a very nice favor for the buyer, and you are making your house more attractive to a buyer, but I'll tell you a little quick story, um, that's about this exact circumstance. A listing agent called me. This is going back a few years.

Um, she was having difficulty selling this home, and it was a moderately priced home. I believe it was in the town of Huntington. Um, you know, maybe the price was 680 or so, and she asked me to look at the taxes. She was having difficulty selling the property at this time. This was back when that was difficult, or could be difficult.

Um, and the property qualified for about a 7, 000 reduction. It was significant for the value of the property. It was a good, it was probably the maximum, which is 25 percent reduction to the assessment. So, Um, she wanted her seller to file the grievance [00:46:00] because she's, uh, she wanted a letter that said that the taxes are being grieved and that the expected reduction is 7, 000 a year.

So the seller was reluctant because he said, what if the buyer doesn't want to take it over and I get stuck paying the fee now, like, so I said, you can have him call me. I'm happy to talk with the seller. So the seller reached out to me and I said to him. I understand this. I've never had an issue with that.

The buyers want the reduction. They're going to save money right away, you know, off the bat. It's saving them no matter what. They don't pay anything unless they actually, we save the money. So I said, listen, you're, you're, let's just say it's a 7, 000 reduction. The fee is 50%. So it would be, cost you 3, 500, let's say.

Your agent can't sell your home because your taxes are too high. So, what are they going to do? They're going to reduce the price. And they're not reducing it by 3, 500. No, no. They're reducing it by 000. So, and he goes, yep, done. I understand. Filled out the grievance. Got the letter. Home sold. Buyer [00:47:00] took it over.

No issue at all. But, that's why you should grieve if you're a seller. 

Bisendra Melaram: Mr. Marcus, how does that work for you on your end? Does it impact you at all? when, if a seller starts the process of grievance and your buyer's in the process of purchasing that property, do, do they supply that letter to you? And is there anything that you do with it?

Jason Marcus: Sorry, I'm still calculating. I'm 26 deep in pie right now. Uh, now in my world, everything's based on true taxes. So it just resorts back to, uh, it's. Obviously cool. I'm rooting for my buyers. So like to me like I I'm happy when I see that happen But directly impacting in regards to qualifying mortgage wise, unfortunately, it doesn't have true taxes Yeah, because it's like until that is completed.

Like I have to use what it's at. And I'm usually not at that 

Michele LaGrassa: point. It's gonna come after the fact. In circumstances like this, though, like especially what could happen is if it's a significant reduction, a way that a mortgage advisor could [00:48:00] tell their client is, Hey, and once this goes through, this Tax reduction actually happens maybe with lower taxes, they'd qualify for a better rate with like a lower DTI or something like that.

So it's a way that maybe they can refinance in the future with lower taxes. If it's a significant amount, like 73, 000 a year. 

Bisendra Melaram: I mean, at a minimum, their escrow gets lowered. 

Jason Marcus: That's usually the conversations I'm having. I'm talking about the assessment of escrows, usually done in April by most servicers, and the fact that like, because anytime I'm having these consultations with buyers, it's suitability over eligibility.

So a lot of times, like, I don't want my client to sit there and Use Max qualification. I'm usually feeling like I'm doing them a disservice of I'm not at least having the conversation on not hitting that ceiling and really stretching them. So when it comes down to us assessing these things, lower taxes, of course, are going to [00:49:00] equal more breathing room, which is going to fall right into kind of what I'm preaching.

So in my world, I love that, like, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of these. And, uh, you know, having and incorporating those into these conversations. 

Bisendra Melaram: Well, look at you. I always knew you were about service first. Above all else. Above everything else. So, Mr. Kleiger, on your end, does anything need to get tied in?

At the closing, if there is in process a grievance? 

Jason Kleiger: Well, we just talked about the assignment a little bit. Um, you know, that's, that's the main thing is that if the seller had, you know, began the process of grieving their taxes, uh, the buyer will take that over. Uh, usually it's, you know, a one page form where they fill in their information.

Um, has the address. Uh, sometimes buyers are a little hesitant. They, they don't quite know what this document is. They've just seen it for the first time at the closing [00:50:00] table. The seller pulled it out of his back pocket. You know, so a lot of times, Oh, man, you wouldn't know. Like this thing's folded into like a gum on it.

Yeah, 

Bisendra Melaram: exactly. It's got like all of 

Jason Marcus: Amy. 

Jason Kleiger: So, you know, you have to basically explain to the client that, you know, this is a benefit to you. As you know, at least it started, you know, you don't have to worry about starting it yourself or initiating. 

Michele LaGrassa: Exactly. I'll tell you, I've, since I've been doing this so long, I've tried to like remove these obstacles as often as possible.

So when I write that letter now that states that we're grieving the taxes, there is on bold letters there. please notify us once there is a buyer in contract so that we can transfer the grievance so that the buyer sees the letter. They know there's going to be lower taxes, so they see that they're going to transfer it.

And I will usually tell the seller and their agent that the attorney should, they should, this should be a part of the contract of sale, that grievance will be 

Bisendra Melaram: assumed. 

Jason Kleiger: And that's a great part, um, you know, that you mentioned there. Uh, [00:51:00] you know, I've never actually seen it as part of a contract of sale. Um, you know, the, once in a while I'll see that, um, an attorney will write in a writer saying that the taxes are being grieved on the property.

Um, and I guess it's like a, you know, oh, because you're signing the contract, you're taking it subject to this clause. Um, but that doesn't change the fact that, uh, A lot of people like we were talking, they don't quite understand what's going on here. They don't quite understand what tax grievance is. And like, you know, you've beautifully explained, uh, today, uh, you know, the math.

No, no, no. I'm like, I'm like 3. 1. I'm like Zach Galifianakis. That, that gift was like, yeah. So, um, but you know, you, you have to explain to clients that a lot. And, uh, you know, unfortunately when they, when people aren't familiar with something or, you know, I guess not expected, but when they're not familiar with something, you kind of have to take your time.

So once in 

Michele LaGrassa: a while, I try to, so what a lot of people don't realize also is that legally [00:52:00] a buyer in contract can grieve the taxes. They don't have to wait for closing. And so we can also do that transfer contract as well. I try to encourage that because I feel like it's one less thing that has to happen at the closing table.

Like, you know, there's so much happening and people are nervous and they're, you know, writing checks and everything. It's like, wait. So I do try to encourage the agent to encourage the transfer at contract this way. It's, you know, it's out of the way, it's done, we have what we need, and they can, you know, concentrate on the closing after that.

What 

Jason Kleiger: happens if that deal 

Michele LaGrassa: dies? Typically we can't, so then it would revert back to the original applicant. Um, but typically You know, it, depending on the timing, if we can squash it, we will, but it would just, if the deal dies, the house is usually still for sale. Still wants it in process for the next buyer.

Let me 

Jason Marcus: ask a question in line kind of with that. So we were talking about the escrows on my side on the bank side [00:53:00] where they're setting up their escrows inevitably the grievance goes through these taxes get reduced and now They'll do the assessment once a year on the mortgage side of stuff, but you're getting your money back in April.

Now, I have somebody that used a considerable amount of accessible liquid assets. They, these grievances actually came through. You save them 4, 000. You now build them 2, 000. They don't have 2, 000. Are you working with these clients on monthly plant? Like, how 

Michele LaGrassa: does that work? Of course. So, so it depends on where they are.

Typically, um, in Suffolk County, like I mentioned, there's almost always going to be a refund. Sometimes we can adjust it ahead of time. Sometimes it's um, a refund situation. Usually our bill will become due before the refund comes from the town, so there's a little bit of a window there. If it's a significant, I tell everyone, listen, if we're saving you, you know, a few hundred dollars, it's different than if we're saving you five thousand and now, all of a sudden, you know, you're gonna have a twenty [00:54:00] five hundred dollar Check write.

No, you call my office and they'll, they'll set up terms for them for sure. A hundred percent. Awesome. Yeah, I figured as 

Jason Marcus: much because like that was the one of the things that was coming to mind where it's like, yeah, sometimes I don't, I don't think it's often, but enough where people are just really overstretching themselves with cash to make these things happen.

Michele LaGrassa: And we understand like most people are paying their taxes in their mortgage payments. So it's, you know. Right. 

Bisendra Melaram: So they really don't see it. A lot of people don't see 

Jason Kleiger: it, especially as Mr. Marcus was saying. We're talking about April's when they, you know, and that's tax time. So, we all have checks to write.

Well, sometimes. Yeah, the average 

Bisendra Melaram: consumer doesn't realize what they pay in their escrow. Oh yeah. So when you get hit with a bill, like, wait, I just reduced it 5, 000, so you owe me 25. Easy math only. Right? You owe me 25. They're like, wait, but I pay this in my My escrow every month when I pay my mortgage.

How does that 

Michele LaGrassa: conversation go? I usually once we know that we've reduced the taxes and we have like the evidence for the homeowner I would usually tell [00:55:00] them Be proactive and call your mortgage company. Let them know because by the time they catch up to it You know, it's, it's a whole other corner. It's a whole other, exactly.

I say, call, you, you call your mortgage company and say, Hey, my taxes have been reduced. I want my escrow reduced. I want my payment reduced to reflect the current, you know, new tax bill. Yeah, 

Bisendra Melaram: and that's not because Mr. Marcus is not proactive. It's just 

Jason Marcus: Well, it's funny because like you'll sit there and like people are always seeing me like on my knees praying and they think like it has anything to do with like religion or something like that.

I'm like, no, I'm praying clients aren't calling me about taxes and escrow accounts. Praying. 

Bisendra Melaram: Wait, does that actually happen? I'm pretty sure it does. What, if I pray or if 

Jason Marcus: they call me? Both. They call me. And most of the time I can back channel it and try to figure it out. Every once in a while you have some.

Really weird scenario where something just got messed up on the tax side of stuff or and like then they have to go to battle and Then I have to you [00:56:00] know Get the J guns 

Jason Kleiger: Not again 

Bisendra Melaram: So mr. Claggett does anyone actually call you like hey that the tax reduction company is coming after me Saying that I owe them X dollar 

Jason Kleiger: Yes.

And what happened? 

Bisendra Melaram: Don't laugh at me. It was a long Because it has to be one of the two of you because they're never calling me. It happened 

Jason Kleiger: once and it was a long time ago. Um, and this, uh, this fellow, we'll call him a fellow, actually got his, uh, you know, the tax grievance was successful. But he did not Want to pay and he said well the seller gave me the house, you know, that's the sellers responsibility So I told him it's his responsibility and left it over there.

Oh 

Bisendra Melaram: Okay, so in that scenario Michelle what happens with with your fee? 

Michele LaGrassa: I mean, I guess if they don't pay if they're responsible for it and they don't pay they'll go to collections like everybody else 

Jason Kleiger: Judgment on the property runs with the land. Yeah, I mean sooner or 

Jason Marcus: later. Mm hmm in my world. Um, I They [00:57:00] usually with title companies and or servicers escrow accounts, they err on the side of caution.

So in most cases, they'll overfund the account on my side. Mm-Hmm. If it's one of those things where, ah, this looks a little bit stranger, a little bit fishy. 'cause we've seen that like, and we've been, I know I've been part of transactions where I've paid the taxes on a property. but it hasn't been recorded yet.

I get to a closing on a property and now they're making me double up on taxes until it shows the fact that it's been like recorded and then they're like, okay, you can have your money back, but I'll get more of that issue then. Is that 

Jason Kleiger: title company taking that money or is that the bank? It's 

Jason Marcus: usually the, like the bank attorney's office is going to usually make that call in regards to escrows and they're going to err on.

And I've had this happen with maintenance on, with HOAs, I've had this happen with taxes where I've had to pay, like, on things that I've already paid. I get doubled off and have to then [00:58:00] wait to get that money back. But almost not almost every single time I got that money. Well, 

Jason Kleiger: I see the, you know, on the C.

D. You see, like, you know how many months buffer they're taking. I was told my clients it's a buffer. Um, and then at the end you see the aggregate adjustment because, you know, clearly it's not like, you know, you need to take four months of this and seven months of that. So, you know, I always see the adjustment that That is made.

And you know, you could clearly see that they're preparing just in case the taxes and the homeowners insurance, uh, is wrong in the 

Jason Marcus: escrow and understand there's rules. That's why they're doing that annual assessment of those things. So it's like you're even if you over fund overpay any of it, Inevitably, at least on the banking side, if they're doing their job correctly, you will only get to the point where after that assessment gets done and then you guys, anybody out there that's, this has happened to you're either going to get the options in regards to taking the, getting the money back, spreading it out, or however you're going to want to deal with it.

But I've had those [00:59:00] conversations, which are super fun with the client that gets the check that didn't expect the check. And they're like, should, should I, And spend it, I'm like, why don't you keep it in your account a little while. Let's make sure that this is good, but I feel more than 98 percent sure 

Jason Kleiger: you're good.

Bisendra Melaram: Yep, definitely. 

Michele LaGrassa: Check is better than 

Bisendra Melaram: a bill, right? Just to get the same thing, I'd rather get checks. I don't want bills. So Michelle, you gave us a lot of good things to think, yeah. Great stuff, oh yeah. Clarified a lot of things for me, especially, and that is called Michelle. So, I have one last question before we.

Wrap up and that is what if someone is already working with it a larger grievance consulting company I always advocate for the small guy right for the little guy, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second. What didn't one think that working with a bigger company be better than working with a smaller company [01:00:00] Not to say that your company's small, I'm just Yeah, no, I think we're one of 

Michele LaGrassa: the bigger companies, actually.

I think we are. I mean, you know, maybe. I don't know. Some advertise a lot. 

Bisendra Melaram: The reason I bring it up is I know you personally, like, for a few years now. And I always get that one on one feeling, and that's how the other three gentlemen, like two gentlemen and myself, have always practiced. We always give that level of customer service, and I always feel that I get that with you.

And my customers always tell me, like, oh yeah, Michelle's great. She answered all my questions. She told me she couldn't do my taxes for me. I was like, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, at least she's honest with you. Right? So here on Long Island, there's a there's much larger well Give perspective. There's a company that does much more advertising than you do, right?

Right. Yes So say someone's with a company of that like that. What would be the benefit if any? 

Michele LaGrassa: Well, I think, you know, a few different things. One, like you said, I mean, I, I genuinely care about helping everyone. So I'm happy to [01:01:00] do an analysis for them, let them know where they stand, explain why I'm always accessible and available.

And my office is fully staffed. Or you're long, there's plenty of people there that will always be willing to help. We also will fight for even the people that would have a smaller reduction. Where I know that because most companies, their fees are based on the savings, if they're not going to save you a lot, they might just say, Oh, you don't have a case.

I've run into that quite a few times. So it's like they're not going to make enough off of it. So they might not take it on, but it's like, Hey, if I could save you a couple hundred dollars, I'm going to do it. Even if it's not going to, you know, it's almost the same amount of work if I'm saving someone 5, 000 or 3, 000.

You know what I mean? It's the same amount of work. Right. Okay, 

Bisendra Melaram: so you're doing the same thing for the, the 10, 000 reduction savings. For the most part. As opposed to, you know, 

Michele LaGrassa: in comparison. Yes. Generally speaking. So it's like, if you don't have a huge reduction, I've had several, more than a few times, people have called me and said, Hey, can you look at this, you know, my property and what do you think?

And I'd say, yeah, I think we can do something for you here. And they say, oh, well, you know, XYZ said I couldn't. You know, they couldn't help me. And I said, [01:02:00] well, I understand, but I can, but that I think is why I think if it's not a large enough reduction, some companies won't take it on. And then there's companies, like I said, that either that don't go to court, you know, that'll just file the initial filing, see what happens.

And, um, and those also companies that just take the flat fee up front. And, you know, they don't really, they don't really care if they're saving you money or not. Like I, I, Myself and everyone in my office, like we pride ourselves on the relationships that we build with people. And so our clients are our clients forever.

Right. 

Bisendra Melaram: Yeah. Crucial. So have you ever come across, I know I said one last question, but I think I just, you just gave me two more. Have you ever assessed a property for reduction that was previously reduced by another company? and gotten a bigger 

Michele LaGrassa: reduction.

So typically, I mean, listen, a professional company, if they're, if they're known and they know what they're doing, they're going to do a good job, I'm sure. So typically when a home [01:03:00] sees a large reduction, they're now, it depends on where you are also, like in Suffolk County. There's a common misconception that people think you can only grieve your taxes every other year.

You can grieve, you should grieve every year. But if your case is won in court, the court will not hear your case the following year. So there's a one year moratorium, a one year wait period. However, You likely will not have your court date until after the following year's deadline has already passed. So just file every year.

Okay? That's, that's the message. File every year. But if you win a large reduction, definitely continue to apply. There can be changes in the market, changes to RAR that can allow you to see further reduction. But it's probably, if you, if we just won you a 4, 000 reduction, if you're in Suffolk, your, your reduction two years later is probably not going to be another.

It's not going to be 5, 000. It's probably not going to be 4, 000. It might be 500, you know, that type of thing. Yeah, right. Exactly. 

Bisendra Melaram: Okay. So [01:04:00] we've been talking a lot about Suffolk and Nassau. What about in the boroughs of New York? 

Michele LaGrassa: So I myself don't work in the boroughs, but typically I'm getting a lot of calls from people in like Queens, especially saying that they're seeing just such Crazy increases to their taxes.

But based on the property values, the taxes are still pretty low. They are. I mean, if you're comparing it to Nassau and Suffolk. Right. So, I mean, you, so you can, those homeowners can, absolutely. They have a legal right to grieve their taxes and to file a complaint. And if they think that they're being over assessed in some way, they should do it.

They should do it. Um, They have the same, you know, there's deadlines in those boroughs also, but it's just like, it's, it's still New York State. So they still, they, they have a right to grieve. They can't be raised because they grieve. They're not going to be increased because of the purchase. So, um, 

Bisendra Melaram: yeah.

Good to know, good to know. Well, 

Jason Kleiger: New York City gets you the other way, 

Jason Marcus: so. Yeah, and I'm suffering from it because I don't, I work in [01:05:00] the city, I live in Queens, and me and my, like, my wife works in the city so at least I feel half justified. But I'm getting hit with that, uh, four percent, um, local tax. So it's like everybody's always like, oh, you're so lucky, you're only paying 6, 200 in taxes.

It's like, look at the other side of that bill guys, like, I should be living in mutton town. What 

Jason Kleiger: about that mortgage recording 

Jason Marcus: tax? Oh, that's the other thing. Which is double. Yeah, I mean selling and everything on our side. It's just like thanks, sweetheart for making me move to Queens. I love you. I love you.

Bisendra Melaram: Yeah, he said the one town he could have absolutely picked to get my, like, the spark in my brain going. I said before I was 50, I would buy a house in Muttontown. And I got a few more years to go, but Good luck funding that police force there. That's really where all my taxes are going. The police force.

Thanks, Michelle. It was great having you. We all, I'm sure we all learned a lot from all of you. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. So everyone that's listening, we're going to leave Michelle's contact information, and a [01:06:00] little leaflet that has a PDF that she supplied for you guys to get in contact with her and a link of websites that we talked about.

And hit her up if you have any questions. Mr. Marcus is here, always answering your mortgage questions. Mr. Kleiger, always with the legal, and I'm always with the real estate questions. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you guys on the next one. Bye. Bye everybody.